Sun Kil Moon
Ghost Stories
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After more than a decade as the leader of seminal indie rock act Red House Painters, Mark Kozelek has unveiled Ghosts Of The Great Highway, his first album under the moniker Sun Kil Moon. The record comes on the heels of his forays into solo work, consisting largely of radical acoustic reimaginings of AC/DC material. And while certainly informed by that style, Ghosts is a welcome sampler of Kozelek’s many strengths, be it the beautiful confessional (“Carry Me Ohio”), the bittersweet reminiscence (“Glenn Tipton”) or psychedelic rock epics (“Duk Koo Kim”).
Shortly before the release of Ghosts, Kozelek chatted with NATN’s Jonathan Cohen about this new phase in his career, his tour plans, the future of Red House Painters and the strange sources of inspiration an artist continually finds.
NATN: Can you discuss the origins of Sun Kil Moon? Who is in the band? How long have you been playing together?
Mark Kozelek: Well, I mean, it's pretty complicated. There's a variety of people that played on the record, and actually, we've never played together as a band, like sat in a room and all of us played. There's a couple of different drummers that came in. It just was a record that started out with one drummer and I wound up working with a different one. I brought in different people to play strings. A couple different guys played bass guitar. Then, basically, when the thing was over, my idea was that I wanted to put a band together, which I honestly don't have right now. We did a photo, and the photo was actually with a guy who engineered the record, a guy who played violin and a guy who played most of the drums. I really just wanted sort of a fresh start to things. I just, you know, it would have been very easy to call the record Mark Kozelek, but somewhere along the way I decided I wanted to come up with a band name and take a different group of guys on tour with me than I have before. I really wanted to start something new. The last couple solo records I did were for the most part cover songs, and this is the first record I've put out in awhile that's all original music.
NATN: Have you played with any of these people before?
MK: The guy that played most of the drums is Anthony from Red House Painters. He played on six of the 10 tracks. A guy named Dave Revelli I've played with a little bit before. Tim Mooney is from American Music Club, who I've done a few recordings with before. I'd say everyone on the record I've played with before with the exception of the string trio. They were new people to me.
NATN: What is the source of this material? Was any of this originally intended for a Red House Painters or a solo album?
MK: Well, "Duk Koo Kim," the longest song.. over the last year, well, I shouldn't say "year," because the band hasn't played in two years. During our last couple of tours, we played "Duk Koo Kim" a lot. At the time I didn't know what I was going to do with it. I ended up recording it acoustically for Cameron Crowe's label, Vinyl Films. They wanted my record to be the first one they put out. Even when I began working on this record, I didn't think anyone from my band would end up being on it. But as it turned out, two of them did.
NATN: So, what is the status of Red House Painters? Are there any plans to work together?
MK: You know, these guys are all friends of mine. We're still in touch. In fact, I just got a call from Phil today. He wants to go see a movie tomorrow. I saw Anthony on his birthday the other day. We're all just doing our own things right now. Anthony's 41st birthday was the other day. He's selling real estate now. We're all getting a little bit older and developing other interests and other priorities on the way. I feel we'll still end up doing another record, and it will probably be after I'm finished promoting this one. We're under contract to do another record with Sub Pop. Yeah. I think it would be something.. Sub Pop has an option to do it. If they pick up that option, I can't imagine why the four of us wouldn't get together and do it again, because we all get along well.
NATN: Have you solidified the touring lineup for Sun Kil Moon yet? Will you be playing Red House Painters material?
MK: Not at all. I'm really sort of, you know, in the middle of that right now, just trying to sort out who I'm going to play with. Really the only people I've ever toured with are the guys in my band. We're so used to each other. We know how to go out on the road for a couple of months and make it work. We all know each other's boundaries and how to not push each other's buttons. It's probably like a marriage or something. You just learn how to deal with it over the years. So, there is a fear of going out with different people. You don't know who's going to handle it or who you'll get along with. I'm hoping I can get Anthony to commit to doing a tour, because then, the other pieces will probably fall together pretty easily. My plans are for the end of this year to go out and do some shows by myself and then early next year to go out with a band. It's something I'm just now thinking about. I've called some people I know and asked them to contact people they might know. I'm going to see what I can get together. I'm going to play Red House Painters songs for sure, and stuff from my solo records. I wrote it all, so I'm going to play a little bit of all of it.
NATN: On the new album, songs like “Carry Me Ohio” and “Glenn Tipton” seem to address where you grew up in more detail than on past records.
MK: Yeah. I'd say that it's true. "Glenn Tipton" may be the first song I've written where I refer to my father. But really, throughout a lot of my music, like "Have You Forgotten," there's a lot of references to the Midwest. "Rollercoaster" was written about this little rollercoaster called The Matterhorn at Cedar Point. This is probably the first time where I've mentioned the word "Ohio," but throughout the records, there are a lot of references to my upbringing.
NATN: “Si, Paloma” and “Pancho Villa” seem to extend the vaguely Mexican theme of a couple songs from Old Ramon.
MK: Well, actually, Pancho Villa was a Mexican outlaw, but the one I'm singing about was actually a Filipino boxer, who in the 1920s was like the Jack Dempsey of the Philippines. He named himself after the Mexican bandit. He was killed after a boxing match here in Oakland in the mid '20s. "Salvador Sanchez".. there's a song called "4 Women" by Nina Simone. "Salvador Sanchez" was kind of like a response to that. It was a song I wrote about four men, who all happened to be young boxers who died in their 20s. The song was too long though, and I edited one of the verses, so now it's about three guys.
NATN: Well then you have Duk Koo Kim in here, who is also another boxer who died. This is an interesting thematic thread, Mark!
MK: [Laughs]. I don't know where it came from. You know, I’m a boxing fan, and it's interesting because "Salvador Sanchez" is literally a tribute to three guys. "Duk Koo Kim" is not at all, though. Songwriting and art is interesting. I don't really even remember the process of writing that song or a lot of the songs I've written. Sometimes they come out of you, and it's like, wow! This thing came out and you don't really know exactly what it's all about. The reference to "Duk Koo Kim" ... [long pause] it's not literally about him. I probably used him, or the fight that he died, as a metaphor for other things going on in my life at the time. I think I wrote part of it Seoul, South Korea, when I was on tour about three years ago. I was looking out a window and these lyrics just came to me. I don't understand it, you know?
NATN: At almost 15 minutes, it is reminiscent of something like “Katy Song” from the old days. What about these lengthy epics is so satisfying to you?
MK: You know, it's something that I think is not ever planned. It's kind of like anything in life. Sometimes you go out to eat with somebody and you just can't wait for the check to come so you can get out of there and get away from this person you're sitting across from. And then there's those times you go out to dinner and you've paid the bill and you're still just sitting there talking. It's like that with everything [laughs]. You can go to bed with somebody and be in bed with them all day, and sometimes it's not like that. I don't think it's ever planned. It's like that with art and music. There was never any intention of "Duk Koo Kim" being 15 minutes long.
NATN: You are singing in your upper register more than usual on these songs. Why?
MK: Well, I think, you know... the main thing is just that I've become more confident over the years. I don't know why or anything, but on this record I felt like really singing out and being more free with my voice. Before, I really concentrated on keeping within the melody. Sometimes it's embarrassing for me to listen to old records. I feel like my singing is really stiff and I can hear the tension in my voice. I can hear the tension I had standing in a room singing or feeling self-conscious in front of people. It's all about comfort. I worked with my friend Aaron, who I'm really comfortable with in the studio. For the most part I did all the vocals at this studio here in town that I'm really comfortable with. I just opened up and tried to be as free and open with my singing.
NATN: How frequently do you revisit your work?
MK: You know, never. Never. The only reason that I did, about a year-and-a-half ago, is because I actually had a book that came out in Portugal last summer. These guys had been bugging me for a couple of years with interest in putting out a lyric book, and I never did. My girlfriend at the time really encouraged me and said, why don't you just do it? Write a nice forward for it. She really got involved and helped me. I actually had her listen to all the records and write out all the lyrics because I didn't want to. But she couldn't really get them all. Just to get the accuracy right, I had to sit and listen to the records. The only thing I really got out of it was realizing how great my band is. I was listening to some of the drums and the instruments just going, God, I feel really blessed to have played with these guys. But for my own part, I just feel like on a lot of things I wasn't a great singer. Listening to my voice from 10 or 15 years ago, my voice has really changed so much now. It was really high then. I sound like a little kid and it's just embarrassing.
NATN: But are there moments from your past that you think stand out as the best examples of your collective achievements?
MK: Well, I suppose that a lot people would be disappointed to hear me say it, but I would say there are some songs on Old Ramon I'm really proud of. There's a song called "Void" and a song called "River" that I like. I like the singing, the stories I'm telling, and the way the band is playing. They're closer to me because they're just more recent. I mean, without any doubt, wherever I go and play, "Katy Song" is the most requested song. That song is just requested all the time, no matter what country I'm in. I don't even know if it's one of my favorite songs that I've written, but there's just no denying the impact you have on other people. You just can't deny that.
NATN: Were you pleased with the response to the AC/DC releases? Did you get any feedback from members of the band?
MK: Yeah, I did. I actually was in England and part of a documentary being made over there. It was played on TV in the Netherlands I think. They talk about my music and being in the van, and Malcolm bringing What's Next To The Moon onto the van and listening to it. Brian Johnson pays me a really high compliment and says he likes my way of doing the Bon Scott songs and likes my voice. That was great to see and hear! Of all the cover songs I've done, that was the first time any of the artists responded to it. It made me feel good.
NATN: What have you been listening to lately?
MK: Well, let me see. Okay. Let me try to look in my stack of CDs. I have the new Innocence Mission record, Social Distortion [laughs], Flaming Lips The Soft Bulletin, Paul Simon in concert, Live Rhymin', 69 Love Songs by the Magnetic Fields, Jackson Browne For Every Man, Frank Sinatra Water Town, Simon & Garfunkel Collected Works, The Last Trident Sessions from Mahavishnu Orchestra, Lisa Cerbone, whose record I produced, Bruce Springsteen, Greetings From Asbury Park.
NATN: What else have you worked on? David J's album?
MK: Yeah, I played some guitar and sang on that. I played a little bit on Hannah Marcus' thing that she's working on. Danny Pearson from AMC is working on a record and I played a little on that. From time to time, someone will ask me to come play guitar on a record.
NATN: In the early part of Red House Painters’ career, the band was releasing music at a much more rapid pace. If given the choice, would you like to return to this type of schedule?
MK: Well, see, the thing is, both cases are very extreme. In the beginning of the band, we'd accumulated so much backlog that, for me, I needed to put closure on that so I could keep moving. So, what we did was record the Rollercoaster and Bridge records all at the same time. In nine months, we recorded 22 songs. I was really stressed out. I don't regret it or anything, but it was huge undertaking to do that.
I needed to do that to put closure on that part of my life. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to make a record for a record company and then be dropped and have the record sit on the shelf for two years, which has happened as well. We made Songs For A Blue Guitar on 4AD, but we fell out with them. We spent nine months looking for a label. Things like that shouldn't happen either. So, right now, I'm comfortable because I spent 15 months working on a record. I finished it in early summer/late spring, and it's coming out in November. It's all reasonable. If I could keep working like that, that would be ideal. But there's just too many things out there you just don't have control over.
JONATHAN COHEN | Jonathan Cohen co-created Nude As The News with his Indiana University mates Troy Carpenter and Ben French. When not traversing the globe for business and pleasure, he holds down the fort as a senior editor for Billboard in New York. Stop him and he just may ask, "what for lunch?"