Henry Rollins
American Classic Or Just Fuckin' Hank?
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NATN: How do you keep your spoken-word shows interesting? Are they all different?
Henry Rollins: Well, I can't do 2 ½ hours every night and make it different unless I've had nine lifetimes … but it's gonna be a little bit different. It's like if I played "A Few of My Favorite Things," you know, on saxophone, like Coltrane did every night. You can recognize the tunes, but you go "Whoa! That's a different slant on it."
I'm not saying I shade the truth differently, I'll just jump on different aspects of it and improv stuff differently. So, basically you get different versions of the same jam.
NATN: So, is the energy on stage different for you doing spoken-word than it is with the band?
HR: Yeah, sure. I mean, when you're with a band, you're part of something, part of a bigger deal, and you kind of gotta get into a lock step of a rhythm. You can't be improvising when you're singing the chorus because you'll screw the song up and there's a real power in that unity…
There's also something really cool about the energy of just going out there on your own: You better be good, you have no backup.
If I stop talking, I'm in trouble, man. If I stop singing in the middle of song no one will really notice … If I go up there and stop talking everybody goes, "Uh, what's up?" So it's a ball you have to keep up in the air.
NATN: What motivates you to get up there every night?
HR: A few things, and the motivation has changed over the years. The motivation has never been money. But I used to have not the greatest relationship with audiences because they could be antagonistic. Nowadays audiences are much nicer to me, so I can be much nicer to them. It's like, if you stop hitting me, I'll stop hitting you.
And now everybody is nice to me and I can be nice …
It's not the money that gets me out there, it's you -- the audience … I want to hear your response. That's why people perform in their seventies. That's why Mick Jagger performs. Does he need the money? Does he need the ego? No. He obviously really likes it up there. Well, so do I. And the older I get, the more I do it and the more it turns into a real love relationship, where it used to be a love-hate relationship …
There's a lot of rejection in this business, it's hard to take sometimes. It hurts. You know, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want you to like what I did. I don't care if you buy the record or not, but I really want you to like what I do.
NATN: Why?
HR: Because I think I'm doing a good thing.
It's like when you show someone a picture of your kid or something and they go, "What an ugly baby" and you go, "Wait a minute, how can you say that? He's the man! That's my kid!" That's how I am with my records and my books. And if they go, "Your record sucks." It's like, "Hey! C'mon man. I worked on that thing for two years. Don't say that."
NATN: Does it bother you that your spoken-word performances are getting more attention than your music?
HR: Well, I've been out-touring the band for years. That's not new. In fact, talking shows outdrew Black Flag in a lot of towns -- much to the anger of certain members of that band, who still dislike me to this day. I was told not to do those shows anymore, but I said, "Well, I'm doing them in my off time." And they're like, "Well, it takes away from the band."
What a drag. I think what I do musically is not something that a lot of people really get into -- it's pretty hardcore. But the talking thing, I think a lot more people can relate to that so I think it pulls in more of a general admission crowd, where the music is a pretty exclusive bag.
NATN: Do you use the fact that you draw such a "general admission crowd" to your advantage in terms of spreading your messages?
HR: Well, whenever I'm in front of a crowd of people, at this point, I'm usually older than they are … So, in that, there is definitely something I can tell you that you don't know yet. I've seen shit that you haven't seen and someday you'll be able to say that too.
I've lost more friends than you to death, to drugs, AIDS, suicide, misadventure. Well, and maybe since I'm 37, I've watched a lot of people destroy themselves in their thirties -- in the '80s -- with drugs. Maybe you haven't seen that yet. Maybe I can tell you something that's worth ten minutes of your time to listen to. Not that you're a drug maniac who needs to be told drugs suck, but I could probably tell you a story that would really make you never forget what a bad idea that shit is and it wouldn't feel like having your father tell you …
I definitely use that to my advantage because that is part of what I'm in to, putting out a message. I mean, I don't want to be just funny up there … I want there to be substance.
NATN: What do get from doing spoken-word performances and writing books that you don't get from music?
HR: I've always been more moved by the books I read than the records I heard …[Henry] Miller has moved me more than Duke Ellington, Thomas Wolfe has moved me more than Howlin' Wolf and I love them both dearly. It's always been the words that move me more than the music.
NATN: Is that what drew you into doing spoken word in the first place?
HR: Well, I've always had a love of language. I was raised with comedy records, I was raised going to the theater a lot, going to musicals … and I've always had a real love of that.
I came up listening to Miles Davis and Jim Morrison in the same day - that was my mother's record collection. She has everything from James Joyce to Henry Miller on her bookshelf, so I was raised fairly eclectically.
NATN: Did any of the music in '98 excite you?
HR: Mm-hmm ... But as far as new bands, you know, with all due respect, I don't care about Matchbox 20. I don't hate them, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm 38, basically, and what they're saying I guess is for a young person. It doesn't do anything for me. I hear it, I go, "That's really nice. Good luck." And the fact it's so popular, I go, "Wow." I wish people had time for music with a little bit more real passion. I hear a lot of contemporary pop music and I go, "I don't believe you." They sound like actors…
I come from a rougher time of music… I came from a time when men played guitars to make people stand up on their feet and throw their fists in the air. Not to where computer geeks make music and people wear baggy clothes and take ecstasy and like kind of mope around. I hear that music and go, "Really? Is that all you can do? Is that all you're up for? Oh. Well, okay. That's cool. I'll just be over here waiting for music to get real again…"
When I hear of lot of this cute music…it just doesn't do it for me. And that rap stuff? I don't want to hear about slapping women. I don't care about that … there's really nothing tough to me about driving by someone and shooting them and driving away and slapping a woman. I go, "And you're a tough guy?" You know, in my old neighborhood, if you slapped a woman, the neighbor would come out and just beat you to death.
NATN: How did you choose the material on Think Tank?
HR: I recorded fourteen shows in Australia and one show in Chicago. It was excruciating. Knowing I was taping every night, I made notes after every show … Basically Think Tank started out as a 4-CD set. I wasn't going to release four CDs, but I had four CDs of material to choose from, and so I took two CDs worth and I think I'm gonna release another CD from this general hunk later this year.
NATN: That Chicago show on Think Tank was taped on your birthday last year, any birthday plans this year?
HR: I'll be in New Jersey onstage doing what I love to do. It was either gonna be that or I was gonna go down to D.C. and have a night off in my hometown on my birthday, but then they said, "We have a gig on your birthday." I always default to a show, I can't help it. I'll do a day off when I'm dead.
NATN: So the birthday shows are always memorable?
HR: Yeah. Everybody knows it's my birthday.
NATN: The publishing company (2.13.61 Publications) helps…
HR: Well, yeah, and at this point, a lot of people know me. I'm kind of... I'm like Ozzy Osbourne -- I'm one of those faces you know. At the end of the day, what I'd like to be is like an American classic. Like a car, or like the Beach Boys. Like the Beastie Boys are. They're an American classic. I love being American and I love performing in America and I really like these people. So I'm hoping that at the end of the day everybody's like, "Yeah! Fuckin' Hank, man." That's how I'd love to end up.
KATHARINE KELLY |