Cat Power
Reality Check
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But once you're across a table from the woman, something happens. For the journalist in me, it was like matching wits with the most bewilderingly idiosyncratic subject imaginable. Marshall told me how she likes to bake eggs once a year. How she fell off a snowmobile and thought she would be left for dead. How she had to fly to California later in the day and how she hadn't packed yet. And in bits and pieces throughout our chat in a New York cafe, how she came up with the material for her striking new album, You Are Free, her first since 2000's The Covers Record and her first collection of all new material since 1998's celebrated Moon Pix. What can't adequately be conveyed here is Marshall's utterly sweet demeanor; her absolute conviction to at least try and answer the question at hand even if she instantly derails from the subject matter. With that in mind, we here present a transcript of the conversation, left unedited for maximum impact.
Chan Marshall: [Looking at the list of questions on the table] Did you print this up at home or at your office? You must have been so bored.
NATN: Well, I just wanted to be prepared.
CM: [Smiles] You're funny! Okay. [Reading questions upside down from the print out] What has she been up to since The Covers Record? Oh, wow. All I did was hang out with my boyfriend. But I was on tour everywhere. I just tried to have fun on my off days with my boyfriend. Go swimming. Or go to a snowy mountain and ride those ski-mobile things. Snowmobiles. And get stuck in the snow and no one is around for miles and crying and the sun is like hurting my eyes. My boyfriend sees me and helps me get up, but I thought I was going to freeze to death and bears were going to kill me. Things like that. Swimming. And forgetting to have my goggles when I was snorkeling. Swimming topless because everybody does that in other countries, and realizing in Mexico that crocodiles might be around, and that I might get eaten. Starting smoking again. Parliament Lights, thank you very much.
NATN: How much are those a pack here now?
CM: Expensive. Like $6.50. Normally they are $8 or $8.50. What else have I been doing? Seeing my little niece and nephew. Really it has been about touring and traveling.
NATN: How much work were you doing during that time?
CM: I write songs all the time. When you're moving around and experiencing new people and different things and stuff you never did before, like accidents... you might break your finger. I broke my finger last February. Just different things you do, like different places. Accidents. People passing away. People being born. News. War. Sept. 11. Gaining weight. Losing weight. Getting sick. Getting drunk. Anything. Yeah. Those are all the other things in the songs fitting in there somewhere. Sometimes I might paint a picture and cram it behind my dresser. Or I might make food. Once a year I might make baked eggs with tomatoes and basil. I might do that and eat it.
NATN: Only once a year?
CM: Yeah. I don't have a kitchen. My apartment here I don't have a kitchen. And hotels, well, I usually stay in hotels. Yeah. I go out and see an old friend and then go home, or wherever I am. I don't have a home but sometimes we rent apartments, like in Paris. Wherever I am, I might write a song about something that really affected me. Or I'll remember something that reminded me of my past or something. So, the songs work themselves in through basic everyday life, which is probably why you get inspired by things in your daily personal life. You might write some short stories or something. You have them crammed into a desk. It's just all part of the day.
NATN: Can you quantify how many songs you've written since The Covers Record?
CM: 40. Probably 40 or more.
NATN: Do you record them on the fly?
CM: Oh yeah. My process is either a mini-cassette... usually what happens is, I'll play it four times early on and be like, is this something I don't want to remember? If it's something I want to remember, I have to play it four more times because I have to remember it. Because in the time it takes for me to look under my bed to find the tape recorder, I lose all the lyrics and the music. My music is really easy because there isn't much change in it most of the time. The words are the journey for me; the visual stuff that I have to remember. It's usually an image and I'll remember. When I press record, whatever makes it on the tape, that is where the song gets saved. Then I'll put it under the thing and a couple months later I'll be like, what is this? And then I'll remember. The trick is remembering it and making yourself, the next night or later that night or a couple hours later, testing yourself without the cassette if the song still resonates with you. If it has punctured you. The ones that come out are the ones I remember, so, there's a lot of them that are like, no, no, no, no, no.
NATN: Do you ever revise them once they are on the tape?
CM: No. And that is why I have live shows that are really shitty, besides maybe this one person who says, "I'm insane and I want to kill you." Or I might have found out that something really traumatic happened to a friend of mine. That might make my live show a little fucked up because of personal shit. We all have a bad day at work and people make such a fucking big deal about it. What can also make a bad show is when they're not perfect. [If the performances are not] I feel awkward and I don't want to do it, and I want to move on to like going to that place again.
NATN: Is this what results in you starting songs and then not finishing them?
CM: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because that is what the songs are to me. To other people, you know, sometimes I touch on it... maybe it's a really joyous song so it's really easy for me to replay and repeat it every night. I really love it, something like [The Covers Album track] "Winter Wind." I was playing it every night and I had it note-for-note. Always. I knew exactly how to sing each note and I loved making it perfect each time. Not perfect, but I mean, remembering how I played it when I first started. That's really comforting, because I know I am doing it in the way that I first did. That makes it really happy for me, because I feel like I did it right for me, not for other people. I got it right for myself and that makes me feel more confident when I'm playing live. But if I'm not doing it right or if I'm not able to hit those notes that are part of the puzzle on the guitar... my finger, because it was broken, there are songs I can't play. "Good Woman" I can't play on guitar anymore. I have to play it with this finger now. A lot of songs I've had to relearn with my middle finger. The other finger has forgotten how to lead. That sucks. That's why I don't play "Good Woman" anymore. And really simple songs. I used to pick a lot more and now I can't. My middle finger was kind of stupid, and now it's smarter than this one, but it's not as smart as this one used to be.
NATN: Did you go into the studio with these songs at any point?
CM: Yes. Before I put out Covers Record, I did that and had all these songs. I thought that was going to be the record. But that's why I put out The Covers Record, because I felt like I had a bad thing in my stomach. It wasn't time for that. I felt something telling me to do The Covers Record. I had this love for a lot of those songs and they made me feel joyous. I didn't want to do the other songs, one of which was "He War." It sounds so much different now, which I don't like. I hate that. It doesn't sound the way it used to sound because I hadn't played it in so long. Oh yeah. This record, because my friend Adam - who did not produce - I made sure.. I really wanted a good engineer.. someone I could really talk to in the studio. Everytime I've tried to do that, it's some guy who is like [affects snotty voice] "what you realize here is that you're going to have a lot of feedback." I have to deal with that so much being a girl. That shit pisses me off so much, in the same way as when someone on the street kind of looks you up and down and laughs. It's the same kind of vibe, and I want to fucking beat the shit out of.. I don't want to do that [laughs]. But I definitely get mad, angry, and aggressive. And I don't like getting aggressive.
So I'd rather have someone I can work with who I can talk to and relate to about music, instead of treating me like something I'm not. So my friend said, "you should ask Adam [Kasper]. He's a producer, though." And I was like, well, you know, I want an engineer. No. Everyone was telling me to get a producer. I kind of like acted like I would do that but I knew I didn't want to. Sometimes people pressure you and get on your fucking back about shit, especially because you're a woman, maybe you're from the South, maybe you're younger. I've had these problems. Then Adam emailed me and asked if I need an engineer-slash-producer. I was just like [typing on table] "I don't want a producer! I think we need to get that straight right now, because if you're going to work with me, blah blah blah." There were times in the studio when I freaked out. We'd get in fights and the next day it would be okay. He really, totally supported me and helped me in the studio. I could actually talk to him and it wouldn't be like, "oh, fuck." Sometimes it would be though.
NATN: Where did you record?
CM: That's what I was going to answer. Adam was working on different stuff like Pearl Jam. When he'd have an off day, I'd fly in and have two days on the sly. Songs like "Evolution" and "I Don't Blame You" and "Names" and "Maybe Not," those were written because I was just alone in a hotel room or in a studio. I'm not around instruments. I used to have a piano but I was never around to play it. I wrote a lot of songs on it, which aren't on this record. They're going to come out sooner or later. I wanted to put the fresher ones; the ones I was writing in-between recording all these other songs that I had. Those songs are more special in a way to me because they are fresher. But I need to put songs like "Good Woman" and "Werewolf" on. I knew if I didn't put "He War" on it would never come out. "Speak for Me" was just me, literally, playing around.
Sometimes I do that. Like "Cross Bones Style," I was just playing around. Those songs I feel really removed from, because they're not, you know.. it's like a different thing. It feels different somehow. It is more experimental songwriting because.. there's this other one that will come out later and it's called "You." I was thinking about my friend who died. We were trying to figure out which amp and I was just playing guitar and starting to make something up. That's what I do while I'm waiting around. That is when "Names" came about. Nobody is paying attention. I was sitting there and I started thinking about a friend who I wished could have played on "Good Woman." So that made me think of him and I started playing "You." It is also about another woman I know who is this extreme sexual object and is very self-destructive. It is also about planet Earth. I don't know what I'm talking about. But there were so many different studios. A couple of days here and there. Sometimes I would show up, fly into a place, and have four or five days open but just work on one day. We'd sit there with two bottles of scotch, packs of cigarettes, laughing and listening to old songs and going, "this is so stupid!" "Ooh ooh ooh, I have an idea! Is the tape rolling?" Sometimes it was like, "what are we doing?" You get removed from them. Sorry!
Marshall's cell phone rings and she takes a five minute call from "Michael"
NATN: How many of the 40 songs did you record?
CM: 40. Yeah.
NATN: What went into the selection process?
CM: Confusion. Indecision. This is record number one and we have to get that one done. So we have this package and these other things. I need to turn a record in because I'm a year late. [she arranges imaginary CDs on the table] Let's take these here. Let's move this there. Wait a minute. Let's go back here. But wait. It's a mess. It's so stupid. I should have already released all that stuff.
NATN: Will it come out?
CM: Yeah, it will. But maybe it won't [laughs]. It will but I don't know when.
NATN: I want to ask about a couple of specific songs. "I Don't Blame You" sounds like a performer addressing his audience.
CM: It's not about me. No. That person who is going insane? Oh, yes absolutely. That's why I empathize with it. It is a performer. But there are lots of performers who have come before that person. I don't want to mention who that person is because there is so much bullshit surrounding that person.
NATN: We talked about "Good Woman" a little..
CM: And the two little girls singing on it are Maggie and Emma from Seattle. They're 10. They're almost 11. They're really so cool. They're really great.
NATN: That song is a break-up song but it seems like it could be written from either person's perspective.
CM: Of course. That's what I wanted. That's a decision I made when I was listening to it. I didn't want to be alone in that. Men have suffered as well. I think it's the disconnection between men and women with each other which is the reason for problem marriages, abused children, neglected love, mistrust, lies, and infidelity. That missed connection is why that song was written. It was really refreshing because the person who sang on that song heard the song.. I wanted that person to sing on that song because I was in that city. We had sang a song earlier, the day before. Or maybe it was earlier that night. It was this person wanting to sing a song together and we did that. But then I was thinking I really would love it if this person I'm speaking of -- who I'm not going to mention, because that isn't really important, but he's a really great guy [editor's note: Marshall is referring to Eddie Vedder]. It would be great if you could lend your, because you have a pretty voice, if you could lend your.. it would really help the flipside of what's important about men and women in relationships. Sorry!
NATN: There are some sparse songs with just you, but some have other musicians. Does this have anything to do with having so much material to choose from?
CM: I do hear other instrumentation on some songs. There's a certain energy some songs have to me. But there's some I don't want to touch with a 10-foot-pole. That's how I felt, actually, a long time ago about some songs from other records that were recorded with a band. It was always improv. I didn't want to practice because I was really shy about playing with other people. I kind of got manipulated into doing it, because people were like, "it's really cool. You really should play! We want to be your band." And I said, "I don't know. Why. What's wrong with you?" Then, I realized it was no big deal and now it is easier to play with other people. I feel like I murdered some of the songs by having a band on them. I fought hard with myself about not wanting drums on a song. It doesn't always have to be band. That's why I was really adamant about The Covers Record being completely nothing except a song. Songs are what inspire so much in so many people. It's so important. Not important. Not a big deal. But a handshake. There's so much.. sometimes something simple is just so simple. And easy to understand.
NATN: Did Adam ever try to talk you..
CM: Adam did try to talk me out and talk me into things a lot. That's what I mean about us getting in fights. We did have arguments and there were times I know he questioned being my friend ever again. But if that's what I need... This is exactly why I wish I didn't need an engineer. I wish I knew how to do all the buttons myself. But I don't and that's why I needed... so..
NATN: Well, did you come to a compromise on anything?
CM: One of the guys in the studio put the piano for "Evolution" into a chamber where... I don't know what it is, but it's like a vibration. It makes the sound tremble, rather than a reverb or an echo. It's like a shaking sound. That we kept on the record. The tamborino on "Baby Doll." I wanted castanets but it didn't work. "Baby Doll" all I wanted was this noise at certain points.. something to punctuate.. it was always a push for time. The tamborino guy at the beginning of the song was just practicing. Well, maybe we should just not put it in the song and leave it on the record as an intro. That was definitely not what it was supposed to be.
NATN: The songs that do have drums could really be big and powerful live.
CM: Yeah. My favorite one with drums is "Shaking Paper." I really love the drums on that. When my friend [editor's note: Dave Grohl] was playing.. I got to get exactly what I heard in my head. It was really kind of physically painful for him to do. I got to hear what I heard in my head. It is the same thing for four minutes, I felt guilty for it but I'm so happy, because he was doing exactly what I heard. I probably would have started crying.
NATN: And "Names" was something you were making up on the spot?
CM: Yeah. I got reminded of some people I met at different schools growing up. I went to a lot of different kinds of schools: the inner city school, the cornfield school, the rich-but-fucked-up kids school. The human condition is always the same. It doesn't matter what kind of person you meet. It is always the same stories everywhere. That is always really depressing. Not depressing. But things happen to innocent kids by adults and by society, because society controls children and what they're supposed to think and do and say. I think it is really disgusting that things like that aren't talked about more openly. In the adult world, they keep it hidden. Things like that are probably reasons why we're about to blow up Iraq. Adults don't take responsibility for themselves or their children and it's really sick.
They have shelters and support groups and stuff. Ever since the '50s, or even the '20s, really what shook 'em was getting some opium or going and being a prostitute. Just fucking living their life. Leaving the church. Or a man falling in love with another man. OK. Murder me. I'm going to be myself. That is really hard for people in society, especially for children. Nobody protects their beautiful, perfect.. not perfect.. just difference. No one protects differences. They want to keep differences under wraps so everybody can be the same. Sorry! You know what I'm saying. I do have to go really soon because my car comes at 2:45. I need to go home to pack. Would you walk me to my house?
We walk around the corner onto Ave. B, with the tape rolling...
CM: Okay, next question
NATN: About "Names." Is what's on the record the first take?
CM: Yes. Um, oh. Yes. But, "I Don't Blame You" I sat there while everybody was playing pool, ping-pong, and getting stoned while we were mixing and transferring tape. I was in there singing that song. We'd all been drinking all night or whatever. I was remembering somebody and I was just sitting there. Remember I told you I don't want to forget a song so I have to play it over and over and over? I must have played it 20 times. I got so completely delirious that when Adam walked in he was laughing at me. Usually I don't sing when anyone walks around. I was just staring at him and laughing and singing. I was like, [singing] "Adam, why don't you and press record." Next question.
NATN: After the record comes out, are you going to be on the road extensively?
CM: Yes. Probably for two years. Definitely probably six months straight. Usually I go like for eight months, take a couple months off, then do it all again for a couple years. I'd love it to be just me. My goal is.. I wanted two drummers originally. Now I think it is going to be one drummer, two guitar players, myself, a lady.. it's going to be boys and girls. Drummer. Couple of guitars. I was thinking about getting a bass. And I need a violin player.
NATN: That's quite an ensemble.
CM: [In fake French accent] Ensemble! Let's see if it works. Don't hold me too it. Because I could fall out of the sky. There's a friend of mine in a band called Smoke.. Coleman from that; I want him to play guitar with me. This band in Paris, they're Americans. The girl is Canadian and their band is called Women And Children. But we'll see if I pull it together and if I have the strength and the effort of.. it's over there [pointing to her apartment]. Next question.
NATN: Well, I am one of the principals in the online music site Nude As The News...
CM: Are you kidding? Wait. I might have seen that. That's you? Really? Oh my god. That's amazing. I think I have seen that. Wow. Confess. You weirdo [laughs].
NATN: Well, we always liked the name, but we didn't know what it means.
CM: Ah, "Nude As The News." It just means reality, that's all. Like, oops, there it is. That's all. It's just reality.
JONATHAN COHEN | Jonathan Cohen co-created Nude As The News with his Indiana University mates Troy Carpenter and Ben French. When not traversing the globe for business and pleasure, he holds down the fort as a senior editor for Billboard in New York. Stop him and he just may ask, "what for lunch?"