Stephen Malkmus
Permanently Diversified
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Luckily, Malkmus has wasted no time dropping his solo debut on the masses. The self-titled set, due Feb. 13 on Pavement's former label home Matador, sports nary a bad song amongst its 12 tracks. Pavement fans certainly won't be let down by powerful cuts such as opener "Black Book" or the shambling "Pink India," while Malkmus' trademark wit is also on full display on "Phantasies" and "Jo Jo's Jacket," the latter of which appears to be a tribute to late actor Yul Brynner.
Over five bean soup, goat cheese salads, and iced tea in New York's Soho neighborhood, Malkmus recently chatted with NATN Associate Editor Jonathan Cohen about his new material, Pavement's demise, the guitar tone of Pearl Jam's Mike McCready, and a number of other earth-shattering topics.
NATN: Were any of the songs here kicking around from the Pavement days?
Stephen Malkmus: There were a few things kicking around before. The song "Church On White" and maybe "Trojan Curfew." They were slightly older. Maybe one more. "Jenny And The Ess-Dog" ... the chords were kind of around for awhile, but I never played it with anybody. I never even ran through "Trojan Curfew" with Pavement. But I had those chords and knew it was a good song. I was just waiting for the right place to do it.
NATN: When did you begin working up the songs for possible recording sessions?
SM: I started rehearsing in February and March a couple times a week in the basement of the drummer [John Moen]'s girlfriend's house, while she was at work. And then we did like five days in late April, kind of to see if it sounded like a band. We didn't have a plan to make an album, necessarily. Maybe not for sure to be a bigger record, or like putting a full ad in Spin and stuff [laughs]. But it was coming out pretty good, and I got a rough mix and sent one to [label owner] Chris [Lombardi] from Matador. I was thinking I would put it out myself if they weren't into it, but they were really into it. They said it would be good for Matador to do it. I probably wanted that to happen all the time, but I didn't want it to be weird or pressure anybody into doing it.
NATN: Tell me about where the album was actually recorded, and what the experience was like.
SM: It was done first at this out of town studio called Supernatural. When I first went there, there was a Christian band playing there. They crank out albums in like two days. I also did some singing at this place called Dead Aunt Thelma's, which used to be a kind of a rock studio. Now it's owned by the Catholic Broadcasting Corporation, but they rent out some extra time to rock bands. I did some vocals there. The basics were done over at that. Then I went to Jackpot, which is like the local indie studio, run by Larry Crane from Tape-Op magazine. The engineer was Jeff Saltzman, he's worked with Sunset Valley. He'd like to be like Tchad Blake or Nigel Godrich, he really looks up to those guys. He had a lot to do with how it sounds and how it sounds of the quality that it does. I would have done it anyway without him, but it wouldn't have sounded as good. I'm happy. He did a great job. Nobody else played on it but us. My girlfriend sings some backing vocals.
NATN: Did you know the other players beforehand?
SM: No, I've just met them over the past three or four years. I was playing Scrabble a lot with [bassist] Joanna [Bolme] at night, and I knew she was good. John was one of the first people I met in town. He helped tune the drums once for Pavement. I knew he was a good player. He's kind of a jack-of-all-trades around Portland. We got along great, and we thought we'd try it.
NATN: Was anything left unfinished, or was there anything that just didn't make the final cut?
SM: There's a couple of things we left unfinished. There's one song that is Japanese only that's really a fun song. There's no lyrics yet, really. I sing like Johnny Rotten on it. I asked Matador if they wanted it on the album instead of the last song. But actually the band really likes the last song. So that exists, but that's about it from that session.
NATN: What is the album actually called? We've heard mention of The Jicks, and of an album called Swedish Reggae.
SM: It's just called Stephen Malkmus. That's all it says on it. The name The Jicks would probably be on a t-shirt if there ever was one. We do have a name, and we love our name. It gave it just a little ... I was more confident that way and gave me a little more leeway for whatever configuration I use next time, if we have more people in the band, or if Joanna starts playing tuba and not bass. The titles kind of got blown out of the water, like a raft in a military battle.
NATN: Well, let's talk about some of these songs, like "Phantasies." The subject matter cracks me up.
SM: "Phantasies" was hard because when you make up lyrics ... I tried some other stuff. I was trying to make a song about unconscious sex. That's what it was at first. A couple of times I've had sex with my girlfriend when we're like half-asleep, and it's totally different, you know [laughs]. That's what it was about at first. But I couldn't work out the lyrics. I kept the first few lines, but then I started saying something about Alaska. I built it into this thing about a couple living in a cold climate and thinking about moving. Then I found this "white man go to pieces in the tropics" line in a poetry book.
NATN: How about "Jo Jo's Jacket," the ode to Yul Brynner?
SM: That was much more off the top of my head. I'm good at making up shit off the top of my head, like a rap band probably does or something. Poor Yul. I don't think about cigarettes that way.
NATN: The woman's voice comes in just for the word "carcass" ... genius!
SM: That's [Malkmus' girlfriend] Heather. We tried her in the second verse, but it just worked. I've done that before in Pavement, with just one word. I always like it when someone in the group is singing more than just the lead singer. I like the call and response, like from X. I'd like to incorporate that more, but it has to be the right kind of song.
NATN: Was the songwriting process any different than what you normally experienced with Pavement?
SM: Not too different. It was pretty similar. For both of those records, I used this little digital Roland demo thing, and cranked them out and made a tape for the people in the band, which is helpful. Occasionally we were slavishly imitating the demos, and sometimes it changes completely. Songs like "Jo Jo's Jacket" and "Jenny And The Ess-Dog," which were two of the most immediate ones, those were completely ... I thought they weren't that good, but [the other band members] thought they were the most immediate. Those were made up right at the end, and sometimes [those kind of songs] have more life than the others.
NATN: "Jenny" is a song I think a lot of people can relate to in one way or another, with the goofy college couple and the song they listen to when they make out.
SM: Yeah. It's not me, but it was people that lived in my town in college. It's this couple ... my ex-girlfriend lived with this girl in Richmond. She dated this older guy Sean who was in like a Grateful Dead cover band, good time music for the upper middle class frat boys who went to the University Of Virginia. She went out with him but you knew it wasn't going to last. She was already in school, but in the song she's in high school. You have your song, that's your song. They wouldn't have liked "Brothers In Arms," actually.
NATN: Is there a single from this album?
SM: "Discretion Grove" will be a pre-release commercial single in January, with two non-LP b-sides. One of them is really good. Emphasis track! Emphasize! Emphasize! Sleeper hit. I know that's not going to happen.
NATN: What are your touring plans?
SM: We're coming to New York for a media gig on Jan. 25. That'll be our first kind-of coming out. We haven't played a real show. We've rehearsed in public, but I wouldn't call it a show because we didn't know any songs. We're going to play in Oregon a couple of times in January before that show. We need to, really. We're going to Europe in February for six shows in small places ... small, sweaty rock gigs. Then back to the States. Four weeks full. We're playing South By Southwest with Mogwai and the Soft Boys reunion. It's going to be THE show. Much bigger than Lucinda Williams.
NATN: So none of these songs have yet been played live?
SM: I've played a few of them solo. I played in Holland once with this Sonic Youth art show thing. I played here in New York for an Internet party, which was just for fun and a free trip to New York. You can download that on Napster! I just heard some of it. "Phantasies" is called "Alaska." It sounds good, if you like the song. "Trojan Curfew" is called "F Sharp." "Vague Space" is called "I Love To Turn You On." They have my backing tracks of the demo stuff without vocals and guitar, and I sing over it. It's interesting, if you're really bored.
NATN: How long do you think the sets will run?
SM: An hour. The only song I'm not that into is "Deado," which is quiet and needs a lot of overdubs. Other than that, I think we're going to try everything. We'll throw in a few covers too.
NATN: I think you'd need a second hand for some of these.
SM: I went a little overboard with overdubs on "Black Book." It was going to be a little mellower, but the take was more hard rock. There's like three guitars at least at all times. We need somebody extra for that.
NATN: Was there any doubt that it would be the album opener?
SM: Yeah. It's long and hard, but there was really nothing else. Maybe "Jo Jo's Jacket." It also reminded me of a Crooked Rain-type song. "Black Book" is in a Terror Twilight-type of sound. In the end, opening with it was the only way I could do it.
NATN: I played the CD for some people without telling them what it was, and we got all the way through "Black Book" before someone figured it out.
SM: That's good! It's okay to start an album with rockin'. I like "Church On White" fourth to slow it down. I would have put "Trojan Curfew" after "Discretion Grove," but it's fine. Then I find that people's favorite songs are at the end. To me, those are some of my least favorite, for some weird reason. "Jenny" is a good song. There is a little lull with "Trojan Curfew" ... I made that intentional, if you want to trip out. I can't listen closely to anything for 40 minutes. We all try to make it good for that long, but it's hard. I even get bored in Kid A. The songs have so many parts. Nigel loves melting those songs together.
NATN: Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about Pavement's dissolution. You have publicly declared the band dead for the time being, but the other members have made contradictory statements. Can you speculate as to why they haven't given their full support to your more definite statement about the band's status?
SM: I don't know if anyone has asked them, except for [guitarist] Scott [Kannberg]. No one has called them and asked. I know for a couple of guys, the tiny door that was slightly open for a possible reunion, they were still waiting until it was absolutely shut, even though maybe they created that little door in their mind. There really hasn't been anything said. We're a little remiss in organizing it. It basically came down to a little disagreement about putting it on the Pavement Web site. One guy didn't want it on, and thought it was weird.
Instead, the Web site just got turned off. I think it looks kind of corny to say, "We're just on a sabbatical. See you soon with more info." Come on. The people that read this are fans. They want to know the truth. I was happy to have [the Web site] continue on as, you know, to be there for people to see that a DVD is coming out, or to check out the other bands related to Pavement. I don't know. That kind of went down. That's basically it.
NATN: Do you have your own official Web site?
SM: Not yet. Do you make them? I need one. I've got stephenmalkmus.com. I put it on the CD. We've got a PO Box. We've got the Web site name. Now I've got two months to find a fan or something. I've been talking to people in Portland. I mean, I'd be up for that. I'd like to contribute to it occasionally. But I've been really overworked a bit by keeping three labels together across the world, and organizing things.
NATN: Getting back to the DVD, what is the status of that? Also, what ever happened to the Pavement live album that was supposed to come out several years ago?
SM: As far as the DVD, I really don't know. The guy that was making it has been busy with other stuff, and I'm not sure. It was supposed to come out at Christmas, but I don't think it is. I'm kind of in the dark with it too. That's one of our problems with communication. As far as a live album, I could see something coming out next year. From my perspective, I wanted it to wait until I got doing this a bit, so it wasn't overwhelming people with products of me. There's too many CDs already.
With the live thing, I just felt that it could be better. It was taken just from two or three shows in really big venues. It's supposed to be more just for the fans. The over-produced live things just sound big, with crashing drums. You want smaller places, and different parts of the band's history. I don't like it as a stopgap thing. I thought it should be more lovingly compiled. [Percussionist] Bob [Nastanovich] and [drummer] Steve West are poring over tapes, and they're going to come up with some ideas. Some of them might actually be comprised of audience recordings that fans have sent us.
NATN: I taped the Louisville show in 1997. Shudder To Think was the opening band and people were not into them at all.
SM: People never were. They were cool, I thought. We toured a lot with them, but R.I.P. Craig Wedren is a weird singer. He's weird. I like him.
NATN: Let's talk a little bit about Terror Twilight. I know it garnered a real mixed reaction from fans and critics, but I must say I love that album.
SM: Good. I do too.
NATN: It didn't sell nearly as well as other Pavement albums. I had also heard that it was a very tough creative process.
SM: It was hard. I think it was a good record. I don't know why it didn't sell as much. Just bad timing at Matador maybe. The budgets were pulled back a tiny bit more. And it had bad critical perception.
NATN: Was there anything that served as an extra catalyst to Pavement running out of steam?
SM: Not really. It was more even before it came out. I went into it with open arms, trying to make it better than the last one, and trying to cure the things I didn't like with Brighten The Corners. I can't say. It was hard to make, just the way we went about doing it might have been wrong. We went into the studio and Nigel wanted to go into a high-priced studio, which drained the budget. I think there's a lot of beautiful songs on it. There was a lot of effort put into making it as good as it can be. For all that, it could have been a lot easier to do, too. There were troubles I don't want to get into. It should have been a smooth thing, but instead we were always running into those old walls that had been there before. I was hoping to break them down with that record, but they didn't really change.
Nigel is a great guy. He's very into what he's doing. He might not be the right guy for every record that I would make, but I would say he's super talented. He has good instincts and stuff like that. I know he has a lot to do with what people like about Radiohead these days. That's proof enough. He makes you sing things a lot if you're not in key, over and over. I don't really like that. I used that knowledge on this record. I song out of tune coming into the verse every time on "Jenny And The Ess-Dog." He would have had me in there for maybe an hour.
NATN: Okay. I'm sure everybody is curious what your status is with the Silver Jews. Someone told me you had been, um, fired from the band?
SM: Um, I talk to David [Berman] on email regularly. He's the songwriter in the band. It's his voice and output. But he says he's not writing very much but he's happy, so ... maybe he'll get into it again. He's sort of trying to make the greatest songs ever, and they're not good enough. He's not as into the process of making a record as I am. It's all torture for him because he's not as comfortable in there. For me, there's so much fun in making a record. There's plenty of obsession and doubt at the surface of it, but there's so many fun victories. I'm pretty happy when I have material to be in there working on it. I'd sign on for any further stuff with [David]. It's fun. It's good art.
NATN: Did I also hear that the Crust Brothers [Malkmus' band with members of Silkworm] are playing a show sometime soon?
SM: We're playing on New Years in Seattle. We haven't played in years. This one will be going back to Dylan. I have a casette tape of songs, I can't even remember what they are. It's just for fun. It's our Temple Of The Dog [laughs]. I'm going hungry!! Who was in that? Was Stone Gossard in that?
NATN: I don't think so. Maybe on some. Mike McCready is on some.
SM: Ooh. That guitar tone is bad. Too trebly.
NATN: It has gotten better over time.
SM: It has. It has. Pearl Jam has gotten less interesting to the masses as its members have gotten better taste. How is the new Pearl Jam album?
NATN: It's good. It's very modern sounding. They also just put out all these bootlegs.
SM: That's cool. They're good live too, I'll bet. I've never seen them, but I can tell. I like "Better Man." And "Daughter." And "Do The Evolution." Who opened for them on the most recent tour?
NATN: Sonic Youth. I saw 8 of those shows.
SM: Did they jam?
NATN: Definitely. They finally changed up their set.
SM: Do they play old ones and stuff?
NATN: Not a lot, but they played "Kool Thing" and "Teenage Riot."
SM: I'd like to hear "Kool Thing."
NATN: Have you heard the new Doors tribute album?
SM: No. Some interviewer asked if I was asked to sing on it. I wasn't. But I would have done "L.A. Woman."
NATN: Rumor has it that the Creed frontman will tour with the Doors.
SM: I saw him on VH-1. It wasn't very good, really. The guitarist was finger-tapping during "The End." I have the Nico version of "The End."
NATN: How is Portland?
SM: Pretty good. I've lived there three or four years. I kept it under wraps because I wasn't that into it. But now I've got the band from there, and I'm into it. I can't complain too much about it. There's a lot of chart action, Everclear, Dandy Snorehols. They're not doing too well. I can't say I feel too bad about that. Radiohead made it in No. 1 for awhile, right?
NATN: Yep. "Optimistic" is doing amazingly well on rock radio.
SM: Is that "big fish eat the little fish?" I can't believe that's on the radio. I would have thought that "Morning Bell" is the catchiest. They're so mopey, too. Their management must be really nice. Did you go to the show here?
NATN: Yeah. It was awesome.
SM: I would love to see them.
NATN: Do you have any plans to revisit a Pavement tune or two live?
SM: Well, I don't know. At first I thought definitely not. But I saw J. Mascis in Portland and all people cheered for were Dinosaur Jr. songs. I don't think it'll be like that when I play, but there is that showbiz element. Hopefully I will get out of town without people trying to turn my bus over. It might happen. We haven't rehearsed any Pavement songs.
NATN: To me it seems like your keyboard work here is much more prominent than on Pavement stuff.
SM: I guess so. I have this Groovebox thing. I was able to use my own keyboards, which I couldn't do on the last two Pavement albums. I used a Memory Moog, and other pedals and things I could just bring down to the studio. I did a rap song for the Groovebox CD, which as a whole I thought was all right. It was entertaining. But I don't know if I'd buy it for $15.95. There were some famous cats on it. It's not as indispensable as the Matador 10th anniversary CD!
NATN: I take it you heard that Television are getting back together for a festival in the U.K. this spring?
SM: I did hear that. Richard Lloyd plays around here all the time, right? I did a thing in Mojo, and I said "Marquee Moon" was the greatest song ever. So...
NATN: Well, it's nothing compared to the Soft Boys reunion.
SM: Ooh. That is so big.
JONATHAN COHEN | Jonathan Cohen co-created Nude As The News with his Indiana University mates Troy Carpenter and Ben French. When not traversing the globe for business and pleasure, he holds down the fort as a senior editor for Billboard in New York. Stop him and he just may ask, "what for lunch?"