Robert Pollard
Rock Of Ages
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If it’s an unfamiliar position for 43-year-old GBV frontman Robert Pollard, rest assured that the band has no intentions of turning a blind eye to the skewed pop masterpieces that made albums like Alien Lanes and Bee Thousand veritable indie rock classics.
But the question remains: will Isolation Drills take Pollard and company to the next level? Or is it yet another rock-solid album that just isn’t meant for these times? On Valentine’s Day in New York, Pollard and his bandmates kicked back a few Bud Lights with NATN Associate Editor Jonathan Cohen to try and get to the bottom of this very quandary.
NATN: Firstly, how did you guys decide to work with [producer] Rob Schnapf?
Robert Pollard: I don’t know a whole lot about producers, but there were a couple of people we were thinking about. Adam Shore from TVT sent me a stack of CDs Rob had produced. I wasn’t really familiar with Rob, but then I discovered he’d done all this really good stuff. I was impressed with the variety of stuff he’d done. Plus, I wanted this album to have a lot of diversity within it, and it looked like Rob would be the guy. We talked, discussed what we wanted, and it came together really quickly.
NATN: Would it be fair to say the overall sound of the new album is more or less in line with Do The Collapse?
RP: Yeah. Well, when we did Do The Collapse, we had finally made the decision to make an album entirely in a studio with a producer. We figured, things are still going well, and we want to work with another producer. So, yeah, it’s another big studio record. But we went for an even fuller, wall-of-sound guitar sound. The songs turned out to be more anthemic, so we wanted that big guitar sound again.
NATN: Still, there are some tender touches here, with strings, and piano.
RP: Yeah, some ballads. We worked with the same arranger, Dave Soldier, for the strings. That was one thing I liked about Do The Collapse. There were some things I didn’t like, but one thing I did like was the strings. We never were really able to afford it before, although with Matador we kept most of the money they gave us (laughs). But we had a big budget, and certain amount of it that had to be spent in the studio. I’d been listening to a lot of Scott Walker and Jimmy Webb, and I felt like I wanted to get some lush arrangements for some of these songs.
NATN: This is clearly a more serious and introspective record than people have come to associate with Guided By Voices.
RP: It’s much more serious. It’s a personal record. I’ll say that it has the tone it has because we did the most extensive amount of touring we’d ever done for Do The Collapse. We were gone all the time, and it took its toll on everyone, relationship-wise and at home. Because of some of the things that happened, I and some of the other guys in the band were left at times with a sense of separation and loneliness. A lot of my lyrics, which I wrote driving completely from the west to the east coast, turned out to be really personal. I drove from the west coast to the east coast in about 2 1/2 days. I’d stop, get a hotel, sleep for four hours, and get back on the road. Driving through the deserts, I wrote the lyrics while I was driving (laughs). Yeah, on a piece of paper. I actually fuckin’ wrote ‘em. That’s probably a dangerous thing to do, but there was no traffic around. Maybe I’d hit an armadillo or something (laughs).
NATN: I’d love to talk about some specific songs..
RP: I’ll try to help you if I can. Sometimes I don’t know what my lyrics mean!
NATN: It seems like “The Brides Have Hit Glass” is a very bittersweet look back at a romantic situation.
RP: Or any relationship, actually. Any relationship that’s confusing.. you don’t know if you want to stay or go. It’s hard to go. It’s about frustration, actually.
NATN: And what about “Glad Girls?” Is that the first single?
RP: It’s not so jubilant when you read the lyrics. It’s about, again, trying to find some sort of uplifting moments in the down moments.. finding happiness in whatever situation you’re in. Our situation happened to be that we were gone all the time from city to city. I’m not quite sure who the “Glad Girls” are, or even if they’re girls (laughs). They could be spirits, or a spiritual thing.
NATN: How much material was actually put to tape?
RP: We have about 10 b-sides. I made the decisions with Rob about which songs to record, instead of taking all 25 songs in the studio and recording them. So the songs we decided not to use were recorded in a smaller studio in Dayton. I wrote maybe 25-26 songs for this. “Chasing Heather Crazy” has a b-side called “On With The Show.” I actually wanted this album to be a double-album, but people told me it probably wasn’t a good idea, with short attention spans and what not (laughs). I know one of them will be on a college radio EP, but I’m sure they’ll all come out as an EP themselves, like what happened with the Hold On Hope EP. We’re getting ready to release that on vinyl as part of the Fading Captain Series, under the name Daredevil Stamp Collectors. The only thing not on that record is “Hold On Hope” itself, but we put on a demo version I just did on my boombox.
NATN: With Do The Collapse, GBV finally had the resources to really shoot for the next level. I’m curious what your impressions are about that process, and what’s it like to be doing it again?
RP: Well, we sold more records, but we didn’t really go to another level. This is a level I’m quite happy to be at. We still have a lot of control over what we do. But we made a label change to get better resources. Now for this record, they’ve even gotten outside publicity. We’ll see how things go. Right now, I’m getting really good feedback from people who’ve listened to the album. And I know there are some songs we can work with at radio. I think “Run Wild” or “Twilight Campfighter” would be great, in addition to “Chasing Heather Crazy.” Lyrically, those kind of things are difficult for kids to grasp.
NATN: As a child of an era where radio would get you hooked, is it tough not to get disillusioned about the crap on the radio now? In a perfect world, would GBV be booming from every station?
RP: Had we put these records out in 1993, we may have had a hit. There were songs like that, from the Breeders and Nirvana, that were hits then. That’s what we’re about. It’s kind of a joke, but we want to carry the torch and continue the rock thing, and maybe it will turn around. I’m not sure if I believe that. I don’t know what’s in the minds of kids. I do believe that what radio plays, kids will listen to. And right now they’re listening to shit, basically. It’d be nice to see it come back around to being song-oriented, and stay true to the form of what rock is supposed to be. It has branched out into avenues that aren’t even rock. Grunge was a good thing, but a lot of what it spawned is not a good thing. Look at the Beatles, followed by these terrible Mersey-beat type of bands. When lo-fi became fashionable with us and Pavement and others, it was good. But I don’t know what it has become. It gave an opening to everyone who thinks they can play a guitar and be in a band. Then the major labels get involved and sign these bands, who aren’t really talented and don’t have songs that can make it on the radio.
NATN: Then a potentially good band stiffs with its debut, and they’re done.
RP: That’s not good.
NATN: You guys have been around for awhile compared to the average indie rock band.
RP: We’re the cockroach! We’re still here!
NATN: Can you talk about evolution of the bands you loved in your youth? Is it at all interesting that the Who and the Stones are still around?
RP: I think its obvious we’re putting out better records than the Stones when they put a record out. But they’re just in the hearts and souls of the human race. They’re icons. They’re Elvis. No matter what they do, people are going to like them. There are current bands like that too, like Pearl Jam. We have been around a long time, but not a lot of people know about us. I don’t know (laughs).
NATN: How is the band dynamic with the current lineup?
RP: Not to take anything away from the band when we broke -- those guys were my buddies who I grew up with -- but I liked to call us at that time overachievers. I was very impressed how everyone handled our sudden acceptance. We did well, and we played well, and some people miss that. But technically, especially Doug [Gillard] on guitar, the guys in the band are better musicians. We can do whatever we want. We don’t have to take a minimal approach. I can stretch things out, work on structures, and I can have breaks with leads. It fits in better with the live thing and because of that, what we do on record translates better to what we do live. When I had the old band, we’d record on a four-track and then make it big when we’d play live.
NATN: Speaking of the old band, I just saw [the home video] “Watch Me Jumpstart” recently.
RP: That is a funny movie, but it’s also sad at some times. Banks Tarver persuaded me into making it when we did.. we weren’t getting any younger. I gave him a rough time, because it’s a hassle having someone with a camera up your ass all the time. It’s a good document of that period of time.
NATN: What exactly happened in Austin? Did Guided By Voices get thrown off its own headlining bill?
RP: We were on tour with the Grifters and Strapping Fieldhands. A band barged onto the bill and wanted to make Strapping Fieldhands play first, and I went up to the manager and told him it was bullshit and that we wouldn’t play if that was the case. So the other band was shouting “guided by pussies” and stuff, and I was drunk out in the crowd and heckling them back. But the manager kicked me out of the club, so I said, “OK, we’re not playing, I guess!” We’ve not played shows before, because of the way we were being treated. But now we’re kind of in a position where people would be very disappointed if we did that. Back then, we were playing in smaller clubs to 200 people. Not to say you don’t play as hard for a smaller crowd, but we were with a very lenient label at the time that thought that kind of punk-rock attitude was kind of funny. We’d turn in a record, and it was fine. Whatever we did was kind of funny to them (laughs). But now it’s not that funny anymore. Behave yourself! Grow up a little bit!
NATN: Well, last year’s Irving Plaza show [in New York] got totally out of hand!
RP: We still get good and wasted sometimes. And TVT sometimes is like, “come on.” They don’t call us into a conference room or anything.
NATN: There were so many people onstage that night, and they kept getting closer to the band.
RP: Well, last year in Detroit, this big, kind of voluptuous blonde came up and started dancing with me. And pretty soon everyone came up, and it broke into a big party. But fights broke out, and it was crazy (laughs).
NATN: What’s on tap with your side project stuff?
RP: I’ve got two more albums coming out, man. With [ex-GBV rhythm section] Jim MacPherson and Greg Demos, I’ve got Robert Pollard And His Soft Rock Renegades, and I just finished an album with [ex-GBV guitarist] Tobin Sprout under the name Airport Five. They’re both good. I really like them. They’re drastically different from Isolation Drills. I’m also working on an album with Mac [McCaughan] from Superchunk. The indie rock kids will dig that one (laughs). I have to see what he sends me, I’ll match the lyrics to whatever he sends. Airport Five will release a single in May, a single in June, and the full length will come out in August. With the solo record, we’re shooting for July 4, because it’s called Choreographed Man Of War.
NATN: What exactly is the concept of the Colonel Jeffery Pumpernickel album you have a song on?
RP: Chris Slusarenko from Portland came up with this wild idea in his mind. It has a loose storyline, and he just called a bunch of friends and gave us some basic ideas. I did the opening track and the reprise at the end. I have no idea what the album is about. I really don’t (laughs). But there are a lot of good people on it, Steve Malkmus, Lou Barlow, and Ann Magnunson.
NATN: Are you planning to release another big archival set like [the four-disc, 100-song] Suitcase?
RP: You know, I was thinking that if Suitcase would have come out in 1967, after Sgt. Pepper’s, people would have shit. They’d go, “what is this?” We would have been as big as the 13th Floor Elevators (laughs). The thing is, there’s still a suitcase with a lot more songs in it. When you go through a suitcase, or a box, full of 150 90-minute cassette tapes, I got tired and couldn’t go through all of it. I had a couple of friends help me. We said, “that’s it.” We had to cut it off. I didn’t even go through all the tapes. There may be some great stuff at the end. I started going through the tapes again and compiled about 60 more songs. There will be a Suitcase II, but it’s too early. I think it’s a once-every-three-or-four-years-type project. But it came out good. People liked it. I thought people would be like, “man, what are you putting this shit out for!”
NATN: What does it tell you about your fan base that they buy this?
RP: It tells me that the crazier, the more ridiculous, the more mistakes that are made in the song, the better they like it. And of course they like that I put a band name to each one. I was thinking I wouldn’t do that on Suitcase II, but you have to, I think. I’ve got one already: the Sheet Metal Queens. Or Hush Margarita. I also had some regular guy names, and for the next one I have Dean Mercury, a combination of Dean Martin and Freddie Mercury. Or Steve West.
NATN: You might have to clear that with the real Steve West.
RP: Is there a real Steve West? Aw, shit! That’s the drummer for Pavement. [shouting to Tim Tobias] Hey Tim, Steve West was the drummer with Pavement! I can’t be Steve West now. That was my new name. I’ll have to go back to being Dean Mercury.
NATN: We ran some stories on Nude As The News about what it’s like to be obsessed by a band. Our writer likened purchashing Guided By Voices to a narcotic!
RP: I’ve gone through that. There were a lot of bands I had to have everything by. I went through that with Wire, early Genesis, Devo. I had to have everything. I would imagine someone like Will Oldham has that kind of following. R.E.M. was like that. It’s good to have that. People at Matador told me to quit writing songs, “you’re diluting it. Kids only have money to buy so money records.” But I said, the kids who buy GBV records buy all the GBV records. They’ll steal money from their mom to do it!
NATN: How do you feel about the art of promoting, and winning people over?
RP: It’s scary. You really can’t think about it and just take things day by day. One thing we’re doing now is being more cooperative. We’re touring more, we’re doing more press. Whatever happens happens, you know. I think any artist wants as many people as possible to hear their records.
NATN: You have said the lyrics on this album were inspired by a long, grueling tour. Is that a necessary evil?
RP: It’s a necessary evil. We’ve actually decided to tour even more. We’re like a family now. We’re very close, and we like to be together.
NATN: Well, your son was at the Irving Plaza show, right?
RP: He doesn’t come often, but he’s been out with us. Nothing extensive. He’s in college now, and a lot of his friends like GBV. He’s proud of us, but you can’t talk too highly of your father. That’s not cool (laughs).
NATN: What do you do in your spare time?
RP: I write, or get together with friends I don’t see a lot. I used to play basketball, but now I run. I like to watch high school basketball and football. I like Ohio State football, but it’s been very disappointing lately. I’m glad John Cooper is gone. The one guy who destroyed it was a running back from Dayton, he was Mr. Ohio. Ohio State didn’t want him. He was too small or not fast enough, they said. So he went to South Carolina, and was a star.
NATN: GBV fans are so rabid in shouting out obscurities at your shows. Can you do any song?
RP: If we’re drunk enough we’ll try it, because we don’t care. We played “Weed King” not too long ago, or at least someone told me we did (laughs). We do a couple of other requests, but for the most part, we’re not Green Day playing three chord songs. I have people say, play “Gold Star For Robot Boy.” But we don’t know it. We have about 60 songs in our repertoire.
NATN: What about covers?
RP: On our last tour, we played so many that people got upset about it. We did “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” the other night. We also do “Baba O’Riley.” Pearl Jam does it well, but we do it better. We’ve only been doing covers for about a year. In one encore, we did nine covers. At one point I wanted to form a Neil Young cover band called After The Gold Rush, but we never did it.
NATN: Can you assess where GBV is now? The band has a great new album, but is it still a struggle to continually build?
RP: You never know. I tried to end GBV in the last five years several times. But I have not wanted to recently because I like how close-knit the band is. I like the way it’s going. But I did think it was time to stop. Now, we’ve gotten our second wind. Still, I tell people I think we’ve got at least one more album in us. We could be like the Stones and just not be able to do it. But bands like that can’t stop for other reasons, like money (laughs). Right now I can’t stop because I like that GBV is a separate entity compared to all my other stuff. We’re a more professional thing now. It’s our job and I’m kind of proud of it. I used to tell people I’d stop when my hip gives out, which could be any time.
NATN: Would you have any concerns over a 55-year-old Bob Pollard up on stage?
RP: I don’t think I would. If the songs are still good and there was still some enthusiasm for the live performance, I don’t think I would. It’s like the “Vampire On Titus.” I need new blood all the time. But the young blood is getting old with me (laughs hard). Nate is 29 and he’s all worried about becoming 30. [New drummer] Jon [McCann] is 28. He came from the American Flag, which toured with us last year. When Jim decided to leave, I had a few people in mind, and Jon fit the bill. He lives in Toronto, which is close enough to Dayton that we can meet somewhere. Now we’re an international band also.
NATN: GBV has also had the chance to play internationally.
RP: Last year we went to Australia, New Zealand, and Japan for the first time. The response was great everywhere. In Japan, they get nuts when you play but between songs they stop. Australia was awesome. I did a ton of interviews about drinking. They warned me that the beer was strong, and it scared me a little bit. I said we’d try to uphold our reputation. There were people puking in the clubs and stuff, but we were fine! I think we drank them down under the table (laughs). But it was fun. There were a surprising number of GBV fans down there. In New Zealand, Chris Knox had a party for us at his house. He’s a great guy.
NATN: Would GBV ever consider doing something like what Pearl Jam did, by releasing complete live concerts?
RP: I would like to do something like that. I’m not a huge Pearl Jam fan, but I think they have a tremendous amount of integrity. I have no problem with fans taping shows. I do have a problem with people selling it. I want people to be able to tape. I don’t even have a big problem with MP3. But people should go out and buy the record when it comes out also.
NATN: There are a few grey area items, yes?
RP: Crying Your Knife Away is semi official. It’s basically a bootleg. But I knew the people who did it and said it was cool. That is a crazy record. It’s the one that made Steve Albini want to work with us. It was right around Alien Lanes or something, whenever that is. I’m losing track of the years! We started making records in 1986, and it seems like they were released in the 1960s! A year to us is like five years for most bands. It’s a different perspective. We should sometime release an official live album. We were going to put out [last year's ] show at [New York club] CBGB, under the name Homosexual Flypaper, as a promotional item with the first pressing of this album. But I think you can somehow download one of the live songs every month. They never made it to the pressing stages, but they were mixed. The show itself, especially the in-between song banter, was very interesting.
Pollard leaves to talk to a friend. Guitarist Nate Farley, bassist Tim Tobias, and new drummer Jon McCann sit down. Doug Gillard walks over shortly thereafter.
Jon: I actually am not on the record. Jim MacPherson played on it. I joined before the record was done and did some shows. Jim knew he was leaving before the record was done.
Nate Farley: Jon got the same deal Tim and I did with Do The Collapse. You don’t play on the record, but when you join the band, you get your picture on it. Then you get to play on the next record (laughs).
NATN: Were you a bit surprised at the lyrical tone on Isolation Drills?
NF: I think it’s pretty natural. A lot of shit has happened in the past year as far as everyone’s personal lives, lineup changes, and a lot of touring. We’d never toured that much. Bob had a lot of time in the van and did a lot of writing. The subject matter just changed.
Jon: It sounds to me like a record from a band that’s been playing together as a band for a long time.
NF: That’s how the road helps. At Loho [Studio], things were so laid back. Rob was supercool. Everything was so relaxed. Bob wanted things to be more organic after Do The Collapse. It doesn’t sound experimental, but it felt experimental. Tim’s brother made a cassette tape of all these weird sounds, and you hear some of them on songs like “The Enemy” and “Pivotal Film.” It was fun. There wasn’t one day where we were dragging ass to the studio.
NATN: Is it true that [producer] Ric Ocasek didn’t let the band drink while they were in the studio recording Do The Collapse?
NF: I didn’t play on it, but Ric told them not to drink. I can hear a difference, sort of.. a little bit in the playing. I think the sound got squashed in production. The drum sound doesn’t do MacPherson justice. The guy is a monster. The snares on Do The Collapse just thud. Love ya, Ric, love the Cars, but the production was a little sterile. I’m much happier with the sound of this one. Plus, I was so stoked to play on it. And I got to drink. The studio was great. We’d go there early just because we’d have cable.
Tim Tobias: We’d go on days off! We’d go to shoot dice and play pool!
Doug: I think things were sanded down a lot on Do The Collapse. With a fine grit! On Do The Collapse, there were a lot of songs cut from the getgo from early demos by the producer. Ric actually commissioned Bob to write weirder songs, but he cut the pop songs and fast rock songs. The original batch would have made for a really good album, but I have more issues with the production. The keyboard stuff had too much gloss..
NATN: Like the “Teenage FBI” keyboard? It’s almost like, why?
TT: [singing the chorus of the song] Someone tell me why!! (laughs out loud).
Doug: I don’t like it on “Liquid Indian” either.
NF: Didn’t you guys go home and come back..
Doug: He had added a bunch of stuff. Even some rhythm guitar tracks. We’re more relaxed this time. The drum sound is 100 times better.
NATN: How many shows has the band played on this tour so far?
NF: Just two in Chicago. We start out with the new album in sequence. It’s a bold and scary move for a New York crowd (laughs). People really dig it, man.
Jon: There are people who magically know the words to the songs.
NF: We played a show in Kansas City, and Bob told people not to tape the new songs. But people showed up with tapes anyway. Now we don’t care. They can record the show and buy the album for the artwork.
NATN: How many songs do you know?
NF: 67, I think. We can crank out 67. Doug and Tim and I don’t use setlists right now. Jon uses one because he’s the new guy, but pretty soon he’ll have to know it when Bob shouts it out.
Jon: A lot of times I don’t look at it, but I like to know it’s there (laughs).
NF: Oh I know, dude. I used to write it out too when I first started. We’re so lazy we don’t want to write out 60 songs.
Jon: This is only my 10th or 11th show. I was in the American Flag, and we did 20 shows with them last year. There were days I wanted to go back to the hotel after we played, but I wound up watching every show.
NF: You wouldn’t be in the band if you’d have gone back to the hotel! We pay attention to shit like that (laughs).
Jon: It seemed real natural. I’ve been a fan for eight years.
NF: He showed up to rehearsal with "GBV" stenciled on his drum cases. And he knew everything he needed to know. He fit right in.
NATN: The tour for Do The Collapse was long and grueling. Does it seem like the more exposure you get, the more taxing it will be?
TT: Hope so! You do the thing you love, and even if it does affect you adversely, it isn’t something you can help doing. We’re fortunate enough to be able to do this. It’s been a dream of mine since I was a little kid.
NF: You think about being a rocker, but you don’t think about your family back at home. But this is what I want to do. I didn’t study for anything else (laughs). There’s always Krispy Kreme. Or the post office. But I don’t want to do that work. Especially with the piss tests!
TT: No kidding.
NATN: I’m surprised you all have the fortitude to keep it together from show to show!
TT: Usually.
Doug: Every other show maybe. We all switch off.
NATN: I was talking to Bob about last year’s Irving Plaza, which got a little out of hand. One of you stopped playing.
TT: Were we doing songs we didn’t know?
NF: That was me probably. But you know what, I challenge anyone to play for three hours and not get a little tired or inebriated. Most bands play 45 minutes.
Doug: We’re in Springsteen territory.
Jon: People say that we get sloppy towards the end, but after three hours, that will happen even if you are sober! We could be like the Goo Goo Dolls, and play for an hour and take our check.
TT: You play fuckin’ basketball for three hours and see how your shot is.
NF: Or you could be the Grateful Dead all coked up on acid and shit, and then still suck for three hours straight.
TT: And we’d still indeed suck.
NF: We play for so long because it’s fun!
Jon: Sometimes at the end of three hours, I still want to keep playing.
NF: And sometimes there’s nights where I quit playing (uproarious laughs).
NATN: There were so many people onstage.
NF: That happens. In Detroit, I think the entire crowd got up onstage. I loved it. It was great.
TT: We don’t mind people getting onstage, as long as they don’t kick our beers over. Or our asses.
NATN: Why isn’t there an official Guided By Voices live release?
NF: Like an official one? King’s Ransom is a board mix.
Doug: Somebody put it out. It doesn’t have our name on it.
NATN: How does one find that?
TT: I don’t know how one finds that [peering over shoulder at TVT staffers].
NF: Get it through Todd at Luna Music in Indy. Or, you could just give us the money for it right now and we’ll send it to you [laughs].
TT: Make it payable to Nathan Farley!
NATN: Where are all of you guys based?
TT: I’m originally from Akron, but Doug and I are in Cleveland, Nate and Bob in Dayton, and Jon in Toronto.
NATN: I’m from Akron!
TT: Did you ever go to Swenson’s? What’s the place with the great cheese blintzes?
NATN: Lou and Hy’s. It got demolished and turned into a Rite-Aid.
NF: Everything get turns into a Rite-Aid (laughs).
TT: Man, those cheese blintzes would kill you. And you’d like the latkes.
NATN: What’s Dayton like?
Doug: It’s very similar to Akron.
NF: That’s why people start bands. The scene is real incestuous. Everyone has been in a band with somebody else. I’ve had the same drummer and side band since I was 14. Then I joined the Amps, but they got pissed off and quit. There’s a small club there. But none of the kids from UD [the University Of Dayton] go to shows. They don’t even know how to get downtown, and it’s like three blocks away. We can still pack a big disco club there. But when out of town bands come, they could go to Columbus an hour away and have a better show. When we play in Dayton, the paper rips on us for being drunk, and then our families worry about us (laughs). We probably won’t play Dayton for a really long time.
NATN: How much liquor can you actually put away?
NF: We have five cases of beer and a bottle of Jack Daniels in the rider.
TT: There generally isn’t a lot left at the end of the evening.
NF: With all ages shows, we can’t pass them out like we used to.
JONATHAN COHEN | Jonathan Cohen co-created Nude As The News with his Indiana University mates Troy Carpenter and Ben French. When not traversing the globe for business and pleasure, he holds down the fort as a senior editor for Billboard in New York. Stop him and he just may ask, "what for lunch?"