Patrick Phelan and Nathan Lambdin
Math, Melody And Minimalism
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Although South’s music has been nurtured by first-wave ‘90s instrumentalists such as Tortoise and Labradford, the Virginia trio also utilizes vocals to emotionally satisfying effect.
On its debut album for the Jagjaguwar label, South creates soothing math-rock that isn’t too dense, augmenting songs with subtle dulcimer, keyboards and vibraphones. On tracks like “Walk” and “Smoke,” Patrick Phelan and Nathan Lambdin’s guitar interplay harnesses both melody and rhythm, arriving at the kind of thinking man’s music purveyed by Windsor For The Derby and Ativin.
Phelan and Lambdin talked to NATN about South’s songwriting process, its stylistic allegiance to the American minimalist movement and how rocking out in your basement can be just as fun as playing a real show.
NATN: Will you give me a little bit of background information on how long South has been together?
PP: Basically myself, Nathan and [drummer] Tod [Parkhill] have been together since the beginning -- probably about 3 to 4 years now. We’ve been in other bands and we’ve had other names. One was called Minnow, but there’s also a Canadian hardcore band by the same name. After that band ended, we basically were just working with different things. Nathan and I through it all formed South, which I think is a progression from our previous band. It’s been the three of us and still is for the most part. We’ve been doing South for a little over two years now.
NATN: The guest musicians on South add a great deal to the overall sound.
NL: We have other players we collaborate with, in live and recorded settings but not in a songwriting sense.
PP: We use vibraphone, which Nathan plays, and analog keyboards. We’ve just now gotten a sampler. One guest who is on the album is Peter Neff, who plays hammered dulcimer and who has worked with Labradford. It has been a lot of fun, and we try to play live with all of the extra instruments.
NATN: Had you guys recorded anything prior to this album?
PP: No.
NATN: When was the album recorded?
PP: It was recorded in January 1998. Things were very slow moving. There was no mixing or mastering until April. And it was a big transition time for the label and us.
NATN: Tell me how you approached recording the album, from a songwriting perspective.
PP: Well, at first Nathan and I were trying to do music that would take more than two people -- songs built off an 8-track. We had a good amount of rough demos already, which was a good thing. We went in with a really good blueprint, and we took some time in the studio, because it was our first time. And I think as we were laying down roughs, we weren’t too critical of our performances.
In the studio, we realized it was going to be quite a task, especially because we wanted to be able play things live and have a human aspect to it. We got into a little more than we were bargaining for. Once we got down the basic tracks, it was great to have Peter and [bassist] Bryan [Hoffa] around. Once we got the major structure down, it was pretty enjoyable experience from then on. I think the mix is a huge part. We had a lot of parts that could have come across very linear sounding, and that was I think the goal -- to come out having the instruments moving in and out and having a real dynamic to the music.
NATN: Let’s talk about the song “Walk” -- I feel like it kind of embodies many of the different moods and styles of the record.
PP: “Walk” was really finished the night before we went into the studio.
NL: The whole beginning to that song, which may seem as if it’s a sort of improvisational/spontaneous part, really wasn’t at all.
PP: Yeah, it was like, “count it out.”
NL: We painstakingly plotted the whole thing out. Each one of those changes was done at a very specific count, but it was tough to be able to do that every time.
PP: We had a lot of pieces of paper with numbers on it. One of the most satisfying things was capturing what we had done on the home recordings. In the past, it’s always been a letdown -- you know, recording in a studio loses some of the spirit of recording at 2 A.M. at your house. The way that record begins, “Pumphouse,” the vibes were kind of an on-the-fly thing. We randomly kept pulling up notes on the vibraphone -- I think it’s a real beautiful piece to start the LP.
There were definitely times when we popped upon a little bit of magic. For the most part, we captured what we’d done on our roughs. I’m pretty happy that’s the way it went. But I can see us saying, “We should put this right after ‘Pumphouse,’ because it gives you a little bit of everything.” The piano part came from a guitar melody. We were just like, “Man, this has gotta be piano.” But live, no, we can’t include it. We don’t have access to it.
NL: From a writing or lyrical standpoint, which usually is what the mood comes from, the words for “Walk” were also written in the studio the night before Patrick even recorded them. It’s the one song that did come together last minute.
I remember sitting upstairs on the third floor of the studio, which was a big old warehouse building with creaky elevator. The very top was this huge room with not a whole lot in it. I just sat up there at some point when I wasn’t needed, with one light on, at a really old desk. It was the perfect atmosphere to finish up the words to that song.
For some reason, the main content comes from an old personal experience of mine. When lived in the country as a kid, we had an actual pumphouse which provided us with spring water. The title comes from just me remembering the walk with my father down to the pumphouse and back up. I tried to embody that in the lyrics to that song. You know, more of a feeling of relaxation and trying to feel calm in a situation that isn’t always calm (recording). Maybe a part of that came out.
NATN: I think that definitely comes across.
PP: It’s interesting that you enjoyed that track. It was a surprise to us that people really liked it. We were taken aback by that. A lot of people mention that it’s one of their favorites, but it wasn’t one we had worked on a long time. The beginning, with the time changes, was pretty much the closest thing to what Nathan and I wanted to do -- to take the guitar and use it in other than a traditional way. And, to put the feeling of a rhythm there, and time changes -- a process.
NL: But not math rock.
PP: Right. A mood. The first part is all based on numbers and one note carrying over and pulling you and putting a stitch in your side. It has a slow mood until the release. The beginning we worked on the most, and the bass track is a big part of it. Basically that and the song “In The Course Of” come closest to our ideals, as to what we were trying to put forth.
NATN: What time signature is the beginning of “Walk” in?
PP: I don’t know what the time change is. We have no formal training in music, honestly. Todd has drumming training, and Nate will bring him some very bizarre signature, not knowing what it’s in. Todd will tell us if we can’t or can do it, so that it’s not uneasy to the listener.
NATN: I’m curious about the references to “the camera” on “Smoke.”
NL: The vocals and the words reference a sort of cinematic mood -- a short moment that is captured as if on "film" and then is gone as if it never happened.
NATN: The album’s mix is almost crystal clear -- it is precisely the right feel for the accompanying music. Did you guys spend a long time getting that sound?
PP: Clancy Fraher recorded it at Sound Of Music in Richmond, and the studio has a really big main room. So, a lot of the sound on the record really comes from the natural acoustics of the room.
I think we almost strived for it being as clear as possible, so that the intricacies weren’t missed. It was pretty challenging to get things sitting to where a single note could be distinguished. So many of the parts could be heard as one guitar, but everything was done clean.
The keyboard sound on this old Roland immediately put a warmth/ease to the record. This particular keyboard has a real ambiguous sound, not modern and not really old, just this presence within the music. We really lucked out on that, searching for different sounds. It was like, “wow,” that’s the best sound we could put on! Yet it’s never carrying a melodic role. The rest, I guess, is just good Fender guitars and amps.
NL: Clancy had us put a spoon with a wire and and alligator clamp to the metal on our guitars, to ground ourselves. That way there is no buzz!
PP: Extra clean!
NATN: Have you guys ever toured? Do you enjoy performing live?
PP: We did a really early tour when we didn’t have a record out yet.
NL: It was just testing the waters.
PP: Now we’ve been discussing how we’d like to bring the live set down to two guitars, some electronic accompaniment and drums, just because it is too difficult to get 8 people together. It’s an ordeal. Then again, I know we all like playing live, but I know Nathan and I like writing/recording more.
Playing live is not an aspect that is at the forefront, although it seems like it should be more of a priority. South is a unique thing, it doesn’t follow any of the other rules. In this group the songwriting is a long process -- a certain frame of mind. It doesn’t fit “let’s get on the road and play a lot of shows.” It is primarily making music with each other, at our homes. That’s the role it has taken on.
NATN: Have any of the songs been modified at all for live performance?
PP: If we change things live, it’s not planned [laughing]. It’s hard enough to pull the songs off. “In The Course Of” -- there’s this huge middle that’s guitar arpeggios, what I guess is the bridge.
NL: When we play it live, the changes all have to be based on sound cues.
PP: Yes, like, “Okay, it’s three cymbal hits” to know when to come back in. You know, we’ve missed changes before. But for the most part they are played the same way. Like I mentioned, we’re trying to figure out a way to play live with only two guitars. We think it would be worthwhile to the listener who really gets it.
NL: They could like us either way, with just two guitars or with eight people. The spirit of South is still present.
NATN: What is going on for South in the next few months?
PP: The three of us have lived in the same house for 3 years, and we’re getting ready to move out. We are going to do another album, and we’re working on a new batch of songs.
NL: We’re taking a completely different approach as far as how we we’re writing them.
PP: There’s more sharing of parts with each other. We look forward to going into the studio. I feel like these songs will be made there, because there’s a lot we want to do with instrumentation. We want to have a lot of instruments present, but we don’t want such a clear blueprint.
Unfortunately we don’t have an unlimited budget, but we’re trying to find a medium. Personally, we’re all getting older each year and coming to different stages in our lives. We always know we’re going to play music together so other people can enjoy it, but I think when we were younger there was more of a concern of getting a record out there. Now I feel it’s more enjoyable to do it the way we do it -- it’s more of an expression of who we are.
NATN: Patrick, are you releasing a solo album?
PP: Yes. It’s coming out next winter. But the only thing it has in common with South is that my voice is on it -- it’s very different. It’s like South made for children’s television shows. It’s built a lot more on a song structure, and I had a lot of fun making it. Lots of guests came by and helped out. I’m pretty sure it will be out under my name at this point.
NATN: Tell me some of the bands you guys like.
NL: On the first record, we were pulling from music we’ve enjoyed over the past five years. But a certain element of the album was influenced by the minimalist movement..
PP: You see it so much today, especially in electronic/ambient music. But I guess I kinda wish that people pay more attention to those that are more aligned to minimalism in a traditional sense, drawing from guys like Reich and Glass. But that’s stuff that I’ve only really discovered in the past three years. Basically I grew up liking Britpop stuff, everything from My Bloody Valentine to Ride, anything from Dinosaur Jr. to Sonic Youth. But the minimalists were a nice discovery.
NATN: There are some moments on the album that remind me of Steve Reich. Do you guys listen to his music?
NL: Yes. I would say that primarily the meditative qualities of his music were more of an inspiration, more so than the process. His process is meticulous. But I would like to say that I feel like a lot of people throw Reich’s name out as a reference in terms of new electronic music. And I feel like a lot of times, it’s a really weak comparison, because a lot of the reason why the bands were being compared is because of the inherent qualities of doing electronic music. A sequencer gives itself to out-of-phase parts that Reich did meticulously and purposefully. With all of these new acts, it was kinda like they could accidentally do it by cutting and pasting loops. So it’s more of a sort of pseudo-Reich quality that was being referenced. When it comes to South, we drew a little more from his way of having many instruments playing one or two notes, then pulling off with a new instrument. You get a melody that sounds like one instrument when actually it’s several.
PP: I have to agree with Nathan. When I first heard Reich, the thing that took me aback was how his music was so built for the listener. It gives you so many choices. You can sit and analyze it all day, or just let the surface take you somewhere. It never puts you in a real particular mood -- it’s a little ambiguous. And that’s a nice thing.
NL: I think it’s the most present-tense music ever!
PP: The thing I wanted to capture, or draw from Reich, is gearing it toward the listener. Some people hear much more in our music than others, but some people just love to listen to it as mood music. I like that. If we’re speaking of influences, we should throw Arvo Part into the ring too. I like when a composer can really fool you as to what you’re hearing. Reich plotted his parts out, specifically to do that, whereas electronic music is inherently just arpeggiation. A simple repeating equals a surface comparison. These were guys that were doing really wacky stuff when they were our ages.
NATN: The parallel between South and Ativin is really interesting. You have two bands with many commonalities: instrumentation, craftsmanship and the fact that Secretly Canadian (Ativin’s label) and Jagjaguwar are now partners.
NL:The first time I listened to Ativin, I definitely had kind of a soft spot in my heart for them.
PP: I don’t know what the common spirit is, but I think a big part of it is just the musicians paying attention to detail. Musicians that are really concerned with music as an art but have done everything, they are driven by mood and emotion more than theory.
NATN: Is it true that there’s another band named South out there?
PP: Yes. There’s this really bad three-piece hardcore band on the west called South, who have released like 10 albums by themselves. They’re popping up everywhere. We want to write and tell them to take down their web page because they broke up a long time ago.
NL: It really brought us down when we first saw it.
PP: Yes, [laughing] it’s in really bad taste.
JONATHAN COHEN | Jonathan Cohen co-created Nude As The News with his Indiana University mates Troy Carpenter and Ben French. When not traversing the globe for business and pleasure, he holds down the fort as a senior editor for Billboard in New York. Stop him and he just may ask, "what for lunch?"