Interviews

United To Rock
September 3, 2001

Walter Schreifels

United To Rock

Walter Schreifels: Well, I finished doing Quicksand a couple of years ago, and just felt like.. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't have any great ideas or anything like that, but I knew I wanted to do something. The Civ thing was kind of petering out at that point, and those dudes were home, so I said, "Sam, I've got some songs, would you want to jam out?" So, we jammed out for a little while, got some of the stuff together, and after awhile, I felt like there was something happening, but we needed another guy to fill it up. So the next point was getting Cache involved. From that point, we jammed for another period of time, probably four or five months. We had that little period of time where it was just a trio. We're also starting to deal with the record company at this point. But we were an element short, so we brought in Ian, who has been a friend of ours forever. He did the Quicksand demos. We felt like we had all the bases covered then, and we became a band from that point on. That whole process from when I quit Quicksand until when we got Ian was probably like a year. We started doing some demos as a band, and went to England to do our first shows. We wanted to be adventurous and play outside of New York before we played New York. It's been such a long crazy process: making demos, talking to producers.

NATN: Let's back up. What year did Manic Compression come out? And what happened between then and the beginnings of Rival Schools?

WS: '94 or '95. Quicksand got back together and did a tour with the Deftones, and that was a stab at something. We had a couple of new songs that were good. The dynamic of that tour just felt like it was time to.. I didn't feel inspired to continue putting my energy into it. I didn't feel like I would ultimately be satisfied by it. I felt like we'd done this and taken it to a point, and starting it up again, I just didn't want to do it.

NATN: So, then, Island and other labels are merged into Universal. Hundreds of bands get dropped. How did you manage to retain your deal with Island?

WS: When [Quicksand] broke up, Island kept me on. I think what made it come true is that I didn't really care one way or the other. They believed someday I would come up with something cool, and they wanted to make sure they'd be part of it when it came. I just really don't care about any of that stuff. I just want to make music. Who puts my music out isn't something to be worried about when you don't have any music anyway. You guys want to keep me? Cool! It was like, "hey Walter, we're keeping you." Awesome! [Island A&R executive] Rob Stevenson heard my demos I'd done with Quicksand and knew I was writing songs that he dug. He championed me, which was awesome. Ultimately, I didn't have a band, so it took some vision on his part.

NATN: How long have you guys been an active four piece, working toward a debut album?

WS: I consider when Ian joined.

Cache Tolman: That was October 1999. We did our first demo at his house.

WS: Was it? We went to England in February 2000. Okay, I'll go with that. Almost two years.

NATN: What songs were around at that point?

WS: That are on the album? "World Invitational." I think that's the only one that made it. "Contraire" is on the Some Records EP. "World Invitational" was one of our first four songs. Wait, what about "Where I'm From?" That's on the EP too. "Get Center" too. All of the early shit is on the EP. But "Get Center" -- I remember it really coming together with Ian. He has a mastery of pedal effects, and it was this whole new thing. I could never do any of that shit. I remember doing that song and thinking that I was psyched.

NATN: So then you begin the process of choosing places to record and who to record with..

WS: We were still in our own little world at that point. We were in this wacked out studio on Ludlow Street. We didn't know what the hell was going on. As far as recording an album, I'd been out of the system. The major label music business has changed quite a bit since I did Manic Compression. For me, a five year absence was enough for me to need a re-education. I mean, I can make the fuck out of a demo. Come talk to me. I'll tell you about it. But actually executing an album has changed: the way they're recorded and produced, the way the money is spent, it's all different. I was kind of learning it by how Rob was projecting it to me. It's a different situation from Quicksand, which was an entity prior to being signed. And with Civ, I had all the shit written before it was ever on Atlantic Records. That was a done thing and was already in my hands. What they do with it is way easier to understand. But in our case, they were really excited about the project, but we didn't know what was going on. It was a weird period. We didn't have that strict vision. We had to relearn it a bit. This whole process man, it's been a great education. I think I have a pretty fair understanding about how it's done.

NATN: So where did the other 12 songs come from?

WS: Some of them were taken from old demo tapes I'd done with World's Fastest Car, which was kind of a last-minute thing. When we knew we were going to make an album, and the money was allocated for producers, we wrote a lot of songs really quick. Another thing about this band is like, even this last tour, I personally feel like we jump a level every time we get together. It's a very artificial way to put together a group. It wasn't like we met in high school or anything. We all have strong individual personalities and egos. You can get Eddie Van Halen, Ted Nugent, Jimmy Page, and Eddie Vedder together, and they're all great, but the band could suck. For us to get past that and play as a unit, it comes together more and more. When the budget was opened up and we knew we were really doing this, we wrote a lot of songs like "Travel By Telephone," "High Acetate," "Sweet," "The Switch," and "Favorite Star." There were some other songs that were old demos of mine that people were sweet on because they sounded really good. I kind of wanted to get those things out. They exist on the Internet and I feel bad about that. From those demos we used "Used For Glue," "Everything Has Its Point," and "Holding Sand." It was a combination of things. But that was all part of the process of making this band. I feel like we're a band at this point, and getting a stronger identity.

NATN: How did you guys pick the producer you wound up using, Luke Ebbin?

CT: It's an interesting thing. When you record for a major label, you pretty much have to use a producer that's on their "list." They set up meetings with the guys, and as a band, you just weigh all the factors and decide. We just had to go with what we felt was right at the time, basically not caring, and wanting to play music. I don't care. It's kind of childish, not really taking into consideration the consequences of what you're actually doing.

WS: The dudes I would have wanted would be, like, [My Bloody Valentine's] Kevin Shields..

CT: Or [Fugazi drummer] Brendan Canty. We would have OK'd him in a minute. But it wasn't on their "list."

WS: You're basically meeting these dudes, and you're not even necessarily a fan of their work. We met Luke, and we felt like he was cool, and that we could communicate with him. Like I said, the industry has changed on every level. How is a modern sounding record made? There's a difference between the recording of Manic Compression and the recording of Limp Bizkit.

CT: We knew Luke could do the job and make a good modern rock album.

NATN: I looked him up on the Internet and nothing came up except the last Bon Jovi album!

WS: That's all he's done. He was the golden boy at Island. We're making an album on a major label, and Bon Jovi is pretty major. Let's just see what happens!

NATN: On a side note, I've been listening to [the Quicksand album] Slip lately. Who produced that?

WS: In name, Steve Hagler, but you know, the guys involved produced it. United By Fate is a 2001 recording. Our record has a slick sound that is still conducive to what's happening. But I think the music itself is not that.

NATN: Yeah, I don't think the production interferes at all.

WS: That's what I think, too. It doesn't get in the way. The record label wasn't going to give Kevin Shields half a million dollars to go bug out with Wally and the boys [laughs]. We figured, fuck it. This will be our experience, and I'm glad to have had it. Working on Slip, it was a cooperative thing. This was way more like, I am the producer, and this is how it's done, whether you think it's great, or whether you think it sucks. That was a lot to deal with for me, because I'm an old dog, you know what I mean? It was worth the trip. Ultimately, you can't fuck with the content. There's real emotion and feeling and story in those songs. You could record a great song on a boombox and it's still a great song. But hopefully by virtue of how it sounds, if we can reach more people, sure!

NATN: How long was spent in the studio?

CT: The reality was five weeks. One week in the city at Chunky and four weeks at Bearsville. We spent some time at Avatar as well.

WS: It was a blast up at Woodstock. I loved it. We had a great time out there. The deer were out in the yard every morning. Gorgeous country. The food was expensive as fuck. The album was complete, music and mastering wise, by February. We fucked around with the sequence a little bit.

NATN: Then, you battle for a release date, which in this case was moved several times.

WS: Exactly. Different bands have different circumstances. If it's a new band that nobody knows, the label is at liberty to do whatever they want, because nobody is waiting for it. If you have a record that people are anticipating, and you have to do press beforehand, they look like dicks if it doesn't come out on time.

NATN: Take for example the Virgin debut from [indie rock all-star act] New Rising Sons. Did that ever even come out?

WS: It never came out. It doesn't matter in a sense. When it comes out if it's good, people will like it and buy it. It's not like were these huge, super important dudes. We had to go through tons of bullshit just to get to the point where we're actually talking to you.

CT: We jumped through many hoops. My legs are tired. We've covered them all in this conversation.

WS: We've been doing this for a long time. I'd be a fool to think that I know it all at this point in the game, at least going back in time over the last two years. I'm not putting out records and I'm not playing. My fans will tell me, "Walter, you're great," but I haven't done anything in a long time. I don't really understand why they feel that way, because I'm not in touch with it. I'm glad you think that. Even at Island, they'd be like, "I love your demo," but I don't know why. The hoop-jumping is because you're at a point of disadvantage. If you know your value and what you want to achieve, you have way more power. With this group, I feel closer to it now because we played and recorded an album. We're the real thing. That has a value.

NATN: What about picking singles? Did Quicksand ever do that?

WS: I always felt they were doomed to failure [big laughs]. People would tell me "Landmine Spring" is a hit, and I'd be like, "yeah, right." I don't think I'm more radio friendly than I've ever been, but I hope there is some element of, the competition's not as strong, or something like that.

NATN: Coming right from Quicksand to the Rival Schools song "Good Things" is quite a leap just in terms of the positive outlook of the song.

WS: If I delivered the same Quicksand thing, I'd be doing Quicksand. There's a different vibe.

CT: There are unsaid things pushing us in different ways. Walter isn't in Quicksand. So we're not writing those songs.

WS: When I hang out with Cache, we communicate a certain way. You add a third person, and you communicate a little differently. The four us, different types of humor and musical directions will come out. For me, that's what I feel I needed to keep doing music, because I just felt burned on it.

NATN: Are there any leftover tracks from the album sessions?

WS: We have so many songs it's not even funny. We have like 45 songs. The next album is already written.

CT: That's the evidence we've been working really hard. If you saw the setlist posted on our practice room wall, it's insane. About half the set at Mercury Lounge was new.

WS: We played two songs that aren't on anything. Right now, we're like a sweet bar band. We don't have any records you can buy in stores. People that have been coming to our shows in New York know the new songs already. We wrote all these songs before we recorded, so it squeezed out a couple of the later ones that we've been cherishing. We finished the album, and we were like, these songs are old buddies that we left out in the cold. We're looking out for them.

NATN: It was interesting to see you guys months ago and to not be able to buy any singles or EPs after the show.

WS: We weren't ready, man. I don't think we've been more ready then we are now. We needed to do a lot of shit. I know how shitty it is to be in a band, in general. Tonight in New York, there's probably like 100 different bands playing. It's heartbreaking. It takes so much effort to write songs and make a CD. Just because we've done some shit in the past doesn't mean we didn't have to pay our dues. We've played some cool shows, made an album, and put ourselves out there.

NATN: I wanted to talk to you about some specific songs. I think "The Switch" is probably my favorite on the album. What's behind the story of that one?

WS: That's a dark horse, right there. I wrote it about spies that sold nuclear secrets to the Iraqis. I was thinking about how sick that is. And also the Rosenbergs. I just made up a romantic story about it. The man and the woman, you know, "don't worry baby. As soon as we sell these secrets, it will be great." That was the inspiration. But what comes out psychologically, that's another level. I don't like ruining things for other people. I guess I could think of ways I could envision me as the guy in the story, or that kind of relationship, whether we're spies or whatever. Doing something scary, and doing it together, and I'm the driving force behind it, with a willing partner.

NATN: With "Good Things," it's nice to hear an unironic declaration of positivity.

WS: Well, the Gorilla Biscuits and Civ had a lot of that unabashed, direct optimism. A guy once told me he was scared to meet me after hearing Quicksand. The lyrics come off very sharp and cutting, and I didn't realize that at the time. I think of myself more like the Gorilla Biscuits guy. I think Rival Schools is a way more, hopeful, good vibes-type of group. It's about hope and despair, I think. I just started singing "Good Things." I wanted to write it from an adult perspective, you know, how do I feel about something so simple? It's altruistic and a little bit corny, but the feeling behind it is real. And I think people will feel that. It's religion. It's hope. A lot of people's lives are never getting better. I think of it as like an old-school Gorilla Biscuits song, you know, what is the most positive thing I can write? Even if it sounds ridiculous, I'm going to write it. They're the most optimistic, positive thinking lyrics. But they mean something. People come up to me and say, "dude, thank god. Your record got me through this time." It was killing me to try and write lyrics that would have an impact on somebody. I don't know. I think it's a cool song.

NATN: What is the status of Quicksand now, if any?

WS: I'm in the Rival Schools world now. I could always say, well, we were good, and we didn't reach our potential. [Drummer] Sergio [Vega] is meant to do what he's doing now, and it will reach a meaningful fruition. Same with me, and [bassist] Alan [Cage], and [guitarist] Tom [Capone]. That's what's there for us.

NATN: What about the possible future release of archival Quicksand stuff?

WS: My specialty is recording demos, man [laughs]. I have tons of demos from all kinds of bands that have trickled onto the Internet. When I was in Providence, someone gave me a really nicely done bootleg of all the Quicksand B-sides. When I saw it, I wanted to have it for real! Right now is not the time. Hopefully in the next few months, I won't have to talk about Quicksand. But there will come a time when I want those songs to be heard. I worked hard on them. At the time, I didn't want to release them for whatever psychotic reason. But they're cool. They're meaningful. Cache and I were talking about this on the way over here: there's a premium on things that are real. The cool thing is that rock music, for whatever that's worth, is hot. But I'm not crazy about many of the records.

NATN: Did Quicksand ever do a monster big tour?

WS: We headlined the first Warped Tour in 1995. People jumped on and off. We also toured with Rage Against The Machine. I think it's weird they are with Chris Cornell. It'd be strange to me if it sucked.

NATN: What is Rival Schools' plan for touring?

WS: We've got some opening slots we're looking at, but nothing's solid over the summer. At this point, I think our parameters are pretty wide. I think we'd go over with whoever we'd play with. Obviously, I'm not going to rush to go on tour with Korn. We won't fit in with a totally genre-specific type of audience. But now that we've been playing live, I know we can put on a good show. That's the key. You become your own thing. You can tour on your own more powerfully, but you can transcend what an audience is expecting from you. You can make people understand what you're doing. Not by design, but just because we've been working hard at it, that comes across. If we're having fun, the four of us, people are just going to have to get with the program. Music is like conversation to me, certainly Quicksand and this band. It's like hearing four people having an interesting conversation, and you get to listen to it. If you're not down with it, it doesn't faze me.

JONATHAN COHEN | Jonathan Cohen co-created Nude As The News with his Indiana University mates Troy Carpenter and Ben French. When not traversing the globe for business and pleasure, he holds down the fort as a senior editor for Billboard in New York. Stop him and he just may ask, "what for lunch?"